[Ben Stephens]

Dear GCA,

Here is the second course in a series of investigations to potential alternative courses to host the Open Championship.

Currently Royal Porthcawl is the most likely 1st Welsh Venue to host an Open. Here is the layout. I have suggested to keep most of the current layout but starting from the current 18th and finishing on the current 17th hole. The layout is shown below.



There have been a lot of work carried on the current 12th hole (Proposed 13th) increasing it by over 100m long. The work was carried out by David Williams Golf Design. David Williams is now working alongside DJ Russell and Ian Woosnam with RAW golf design -   http://www.rawgolfdesign.com.

I have converted the current 8th and 17th (proposed 9th and 18th) from par 5 to par 4 to strengthen the par of the course. I have played Lytham and Hoylake but thought Porthcawl is a harder course not being too partisan!

To add more yardage I could make the proposed 10th into a dogleg right and increase yardage on the 11th by 150 yards.

The views to Rest Bay are stunning - it would create great camera views as it was shown in 1995 Walker Cup.

Cheers

Ben

[Adrian_Stiff]

Ben- That is quite interesting too look at RP and see just how tight it is internally. It is as tight at Prestwick in many places. The holes currently 1,2 and 3 are difficult for viewing and stands. I think the short 7th (your 8th) you should keep as is, its kinda like the postage stamp.
Sometimes of course, things in 2D on a plan just won't work on the ground. I am not sure you can get the 5th (your 6th) up to 610.
Also, what you can't do is the alternate tee's when the position alters dramatically, the infrastructure set up would make it too prohibitive, space and circulation is very important.
Good fun though and look forward to your next one....Burnham will be interesting as Mr Arble and myself are quite familiar with that land and wecould tell you if things would work. An Open course for Saunton might even be a composite!
Well done.

[Scott Warren]

Burnham will be interesting as Mr Arble and myself are quite familiar with that land and wecould tell you if things would work.

Could/would an Open at Burnham and Berrow make use of any Channel course holes? I have heard one or two are among the better dozen or so holes on the site. Not sure though if a) that is true, or b) whether the proximity would allow it.

[James Boon]

Nice one Ben,

As you know, I've not played RP, but this exercise makes it look a possible Open venue (not withstanding wider infrastructure issues, R&A connections etc that have been discussed on the other Open Rota thread).

With the original first tee shot crossing the 18th green, I like the idea of switching the 18th to be the first and the 17th becoming the 18th, especially as there seems to be plenty of room near the existing 17th green with the large practice area, for range, tenmted village, temporary clubhouse facilities etc.

I think I would have kept the 1st tee where it is and have the 1st and 18th within the large grandstand enclsures, similar to the 1st and 18th at St Andrews. I would also have been tempted to try and keep the tee for the second as a cross over the 1st green, though I realise that wouldn't be so easy in reality. I would have liked to have seen the short par 3 remain, and if the green is not great, then just redesign that. I also agree with Adrian in that the alternate tees probably wouldn't work so well for an open set up, but perhaps choose the best couple of options and keep those in.

Can we start calling you the Open Doctor yet???

Burnham will be interesting as Mr Arble and myself are quite familiar with that land and wecould tell you if things would work. An Open course for Saunton might even be a composite!
Well done.

Would love to see what you come up with for Burnham or Saunton? I have a few ideas of my own, but I'd love to see your ideas?

Could/would an Open at Burnham and Berrow make use of any Channel course holes? I have heard one or two are among the better dozen or so holes on the site. Not sure though if a) that is true, or b) whether the proximity would allow it.

Scott,

A couple of the Channel Course holes that I like are the 6th and 7th. These play through the dunes and aren't bad holes, but I'm not sure either of them would strengthen the course from the main Championship course? Will be interesting to see if Ben can come up with anything???

Cheers,

James

[Sean_A]

Ben- That is quite interesting too look at RP and see just how tight it is internally. It is as tight at Prestwick in many places. The holes currently 1,2 and 3 are difficult for viewing and stands. I think the short 7th (your 8th) you should keep as is, its kinda like the postage stamp.
Sometimes of course, things in 2D on a plan just won't work on the ground. I am not sure you can get the 5th (your 6th) up to 610.
Also, what you can't do is the alternate tee's when the position alters dramatically, the infrastructure set up would make it too prohibitive, space and circulation is very important.
Good fun though and look forward to your next one....Burnham will be interesting as Mr Arble and myself are quite familiar with that land and wecould tell you if things would work. An Open course for Saunton might even be a composite!
Well done.

Adrian

I think a lot of the alternate tees could work, but not near grandstands.  For instance, behind 2 and 3 the grandstand or the an alternate tee would have to go.  I would be prone to eliminate the grandstands because there is no access anyway along the beach.  From a spectator PoV I wouldn't go Porthcawl for an Open - it isn't a great viewing course and its fairly tight for the flat areas.  Whereas a course like Hoylake has more space to accommodate folks in the flat areas.  Plus, the access onto the course is like one huge funnel.  I don't think there is an opportunity to use multiple gates unless parking was along fields on the high end.

I don't think Burnham could hold an Open even if the course were tough enough, which it isn't.  The place is too shoe horned in housing to get good access.  I spose it is possible to work around this if say the Rugby Club allowed parking, but the course would have to be compelling in other respects for an Open and Burnham just doesn't measure up this way.  That said, I think the land is there to create an Open course if the two existing courses were essentially gutted.  In fact, if the two courses were gutted I think a a better than Open course could be created and I wouldn't want Open limitations placed on the design.

I think the 4th is strong enough to be included in a composite course, but it takes you off in the wrong direction.  The 8th is the one hole I would surely like to see included, but again, its against the grain and awkward for a composite course.  Just the same, it may be the best par 3 on the property and the Championship 3s are no slouch.

Ciao

[Adrian_Stiff]

James- I think you are spot on with the 6th-7th being good on the Channel course, good holes but they are shortish I think. I have often thought of Burnham as an Open venue, its probably tough to get it past 7000 yards. The first hole would need shortening as well so you start off -100!!!
I think the Porthcawl aerial shows its tight in many area, so to stage an Open maybe a big minus, it certainly is if thats the reason to discount Prestwick.
The renumbering to let 18 be the new 1st is quite real and is something that has been discussed and may happen.
Porthcawl's logistics with a new link road across a few fields could make the in/out scenario by the masses very appealing as it is then very close to a main motorway junction. I also agree the cross at 18/1 is best kept for the purpose of grandstands and circulation.

[Adrian_Stiff]

Sean - You cant really have different lines in an Open set up, unless you had a massive parcel of land, which Porthcawl isn't and neither is any on the rota really. You need to configure hot dog tents, toilets, broadcast areas, first aid areas etc etc into the spare nook and cranny's, the extra driving lines would just waste space.  More importantly, I don't remember the R & A setting a course up like this for an Open, the 'think pattern' does have alternate thoughts for strong winds but they merely involve having tees shorter but on the same line and those thoughts might even have three possible tees if its a really challenging tee shot. That tee shot has all the bunkers and rough set up, the strong winds would merely dictate the tee position so the R & A get the tee shot that they want; it's unlikely they would look to set up two different lines because the fairway patterns would either be too tight or too wide for the different set ups.
You are right about Porthcawl, it is not the greatest one to view.
I think by and large Burnham could be good enough as a course, perhaps we can discuss in a seperate thread it would be nice to see Ben's plan first before we comment.
It may be that a course for a future Open could come from a current links course that ticks the boxes for the logistics but is totally revamped as a golf course; Somewhere like Weston would be brilliant but the course would need another 50 acres or so.

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