[JMorgan]

A city in the Northeast US decides to make modifications to several of their parks courses in an attempt to boost tourism and quality of life for its residents.

The Department of Parks asks you, as a golf course designer/gc architecture expert/gc consultant, to modify this hole -- ignoring the other 17 holes for now -- so its committee members can get a "feel" for your design philosophy:



The hole plays to 185 yards now.

You've got 120 yards behind the existing tee with which to work, if needed.

You can do any of the following:

*Add or subtract yards
*Add or remove bunkers
*Modify existing bunkers
*Add or remove trees
*Move as much land as you'd like
*Rebuild the green
*Etc

Or you can leave it as is.

Describe what you would change and why?

[Garland Bayley]

Just turn it into a bloody Redan.

[Anthony Gray]

Just turn it into a bloody Redan.

   And put a cliff on the left side.

  Anthony

[Charlie Goerges]

I think we all know what YOU'D do AG.

[PCCraig]

Replace the right tree with a bunker. Cut the grass to fairway left and around the tree on the left.

[Garland Bayley]

Good one Charlie.
 

[Anthony Gray]

  I forgot something. I would stretch it out to about 320 yards.........then put a cliff down the left side.


   Anthony

[Eric Smith]

Charlie that is great.   As a wise man once said, "I am born anew in your genius"
  ;

[Philippe Binette]

Is that situation real (Park Department wanting to fix their courses) or fiction...

The hole look more than 180 yards... either a very small green or if the green is 30 deep it should fit 6 times on the hole...

Chain-saw time

[Ronald Montesano]

Philippe, it would have to be 90 feet deep to fit six times on the hole.  Does the left tree obscure the green?  What city?

[JMorgan]

  I forgot something. I would stretch it out to about 320 yards.........then put a cliff down the left side.


   Anthony

Anthony Gray, Cliff Fetishist

[JMorgan]

Philippe, it would have to be 90 feet deep to fit six times on the hole.  Does the left tree obscure the green?  What city?

Tree does obscure green.

City=Baldy More.

[JMorgan]

I think we all know what YOU'D do AG.

Great image, Charlie

(Can you do Laurence Olivier/The Marathon Man? )

[Scott Witter]

JMorgan,

Sorry, but not enough info to make a proposal.

What is, if any, the elevation change between tee and green?

Is this a course with classic/historic architectural merit that should be considered?  Sorry I just can't ignore the rest of the course for now--it just doesn't work that way.

What are the lengths and character of the other par 3's on the course?

Making/considering changes to just one hole is like a committee asking me to tell them which hole is their "signature"  hole and how can I make it better?

If a parks department committee thinks they can get a feel for an architects philosophy from changes to 1 hole, without considering the whole course and many other parameters frankly, then they are sorely mistaken and don't understand the value of an architect.  JMorgan, I am not critical of you on this, just the scenario portrayed.

[Bill_McBride]

JMorgan,

Sorry, but not enough info to make a proposal.

What is, if any, the elevation change between tee and green?

Is this a course with classic/historic architectural merit that should be considered?  Sorry I just can't ignore the rest of the course for now--it just doesn't work that way.

What are the lengths and character of the other par 3's on the course?

Making/considering changes to just one hole is like a committee asking me to tell them which hole is their "signature"  hole and how can I make it better?

If a parks department committee thinks they can get a feel for an architects philosophy from changes to 1 hole, without considering the whole course and many other parameters frankly, then they are sorely mistaken and don't understand the value of an architect.  JMorgan, I am not critical of you on this, just the scenario portrayed.

ODG Alister Mackenzie won the commission to design Moortown AND got enough new members to join the club by building just one par 3 (Gibraltar).  You could do the same, Scott! 

[JMorgan]

JMorgan,

Sorry, but not enough info to make a proposal.

What is, if any, the elevation change between tee and green?

Is this a course with classic/historic architectural merit that should be considered?  Sorry I just can't ignore the rest of the course for now--it just doesn't work that way.

What are the lengths and character of the other par 3's on the course?

Making/considering changes to just one hole is like a committee asking me to tell them which hole is their "signature"  hole and how can I make it better?

If a parks department committee thinks they can get a feel for an architects philosophy from changes to 1 hole, without considering the whole course and many other parameters frankly, then they are sorely mistaken and don't understand the value of an architect.  JMorgan, I am not critical of you on this, just the scenario portrayed.

Scott,

I hear you.  But it's just supposed to be a creative exercise... like a hole design contest, nothing too serious.   

(And to boot, I didn't expect any of the architects to make suggestions.) 

[Scott Witter]

Bill M,

Gee, what was I thinking...I had forgot about the ole Dr.

JMorgan,  well there I go, misinterpreting the written word without the aid of body language, tone, etc.  and you caught me at a time when I was working on actual improvements to a few holes on a club nearby so my head was into the REAL world.  Fortunately, I did a MP for them 5 years ago so we are all good

However, now that I have responded I'll also have to send you an invoice too

[Garland Bayley]

  I forgot something. I would stretch it out to about 320 yards.........then put a cliff down the left side.


   Anthony

Anthony Gray, Cliff Fetishist

No, Anthony Gray, right handed golfer trying to goad left-handed golfers with a slice into some kind of reaction. If he wants some kind of reaction he needs to video tape MOM roller blading on Venice Beach in a thong and post a link here. I am sure that will get a reaction, but not necessarily the reaction he was looking for with his cliff comments.

[Tom Walsh]

remove tree obscuring view of green
remove cart path 

[Anthony Gray]

  I forgot something. I would stretch it out to about 320 yards.........then put a cliff down the left side.


   Anthony

Anthony Gray, Cliff Fetishist

No, Anthony Gray, right handed golfer trying to goad left-handed golfers with a slice into some kind of reaction. If he wants some kind of reaction he needs to video tape MOM roller blading on Venice Beach in a thong and post a link here. I am sure that will get a reaction, but not necessarily the reaction he was looking for with his cliff comments.

  Just got off the phone with her....MOM says she's in...see you in 6 weeks.

  Anthony

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

Here is an attempt to make the hole a risk/reward driveable par 4.  Created a 300-315 yard par 4.

The bunker at the beginning of the fairway located to the right guides the player to the safer play per classic design princples ala Thomas or Ross.  This is a better route since the green is more receptive to the approach shot.

The left fairway is presented by numerous sand bunkers and from what seems to be a exisiting dry ditch like many of the old parklands overseas.

I went with a shaggier bunker style.  I bet you could keep the current bunker styles since they do have the "boxier" lines found at many of the older private NE clubs like Quaker Ridge etc.  I would love to see the areas go native btwn holes like Oakmont, Brookline, or even our southern friend The Honors Club in TN.

I think you have a better opportunity in ths current market to sell brown grass over green.  Now is the time to educate the daily golfer on design since the marketplace and competition on the CC for a day are hurting.

Take the course back to the 30's like our economy and make the project sing a profit in the first year.  The days of needing to design ANGC new money courses are over in my opinion and sound financials need to be at the top of list and reducing maintenance and saving water is critical.  Sure I added a ton more bunkers but this was for fun and I didnt follow my advice!ha

[Robert "Cliff" Stanfield]

I attached a pdf so you have to open to view the sketch.  If anybody knows how to drop into the reply that would be helpful.  I had fun sketching this quickie....I miss the golf design biz. 

[Charlie Goerges]

Here you go:

[Cristian]

Here is my proposal (forgive inferior photoshop software)

- (re)move tree's obscuring view
- add extra forward tee for short hitter as green is small, about 15x20 yds if scales are correct)
- add tree's behind green to obscure view of road (provided this is not already achieved by slope)
-create short cut undulating chipping area to recover safe shots left of green
-remove front left bunker and add potbunker to the righ to create asymmetrical bunkering with small green
-Create crossbunker to make hole look shorter than it is

[Ronald Montesano]

Wait, would Baltimore really consider itself northeast?  I'm guessing not quite.  I imagined it was buff or bost or nyc or hart or some other true NE city.  Shame.  We have lots of bad muni holes in Buff that go a-wanting.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()