[Mike_Cirba]

Does anyone know where the following address would have been located in SLC circa 1900?

When I mapquest it's pretty much right downtown, which doesn't make sense given some other descriptions later in the decade of folks needing to motor there.

Gilmer Home Leased-
To this end the members leased for
two years the Gilmer property situated on
corner of Ninth East and Ninth
South streets consisting of a house and
eighty acrea of ground The ground
immediately surrounding the house is
highly cultivated with extensive lawns
bordered by beautiful trees that cast a
grateful shade in the summer months
and decked with flower beds and rare
plants with no fence or other obstruc
tion marring the sense of pleasure
presented by the picture but approached
through a magnificent driveway
bordered on either side with a beauti
fully cultivated hedge.

The course is a nine hole one with magnificent
natural hazards.   The first tee, where the game begins
is on the
lawn in front of the house with the
first hole a distance of 300 yards to
the south The second hole is north- east 250 yards and the third 312 yards
southeast The fourth hole is 280 yards
east across a magnificent hazard of the old canal built by Brigham Young with which old residents are all familiar The fifth hole is 245 yards dlrectly north running along the top of
the bench on Tenth East and below
Ninth South with a beautiful view of
the surrounding valley with the
and Saltair In the distance-
To find the sixth hole the player
drives southwest back across the
canal a distance of 200 yards and
gnreexetnnoonrtthhweebsrtin2k60of yaarddesep gwulicthh Tthhee
drive to the eighth hole is across the
gulch 14i yards The homo hole is a
dJotanco of 245 yards with the green on
the lawn just north of the house which...etc.

Sorry for the bad copy and paste but there should be enuff there to at least get a better sense of where this might have been..

Thanks for any info.

[Joe Bausch]

Is this the course you are asking about Mike?

[Mike_Cirba]

Joe,

Yes, this is the place. 

Actually, I have a much larger article, as well.

We're fishing in the same hole. 

[Joe Bausch]

Joe,

Yes, this is the place. 

Actually, I have a much larger article, as well.

We're fishing in the same hole. 

I'm reading that larger article too.  Still can't quite figure out where stuff is/was.

[Mike_Cirba]

Paging Big Love...Big Love come in please... 

[Mike_Cirba]

Interestingly, Forest Dale GC, which is supposedly the site of the original SLC CC is on S 9th E.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=W+900+S+%26+E+9th+S,+Salt+Lake+City,+Salt+Lake,+Utah+84101&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=14.56569,25.839844&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=FeLKbQIdoK1U-Q&split=0&ll=40.719664,-111.862729&spn=0.007774,0.019226&t=k&z=16

Coincidence?

[Joe Bausch]

Is this what is now the Forest Dale Golf Course?  I think it is.

http://www.slcgov.com/publicservices/golf/Forest%20Dale.htm

[Kalen Braley]

Interestingly, Forest Dale GC, which is supposedly the site of the original SLC CC is on S 9th E.

http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=W+900+S+%26+E+9th+S,+Salt+Lake+City,+Salt+Lake,+Utah+84101&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=14.56569,25.839844&ie=UTF8&cd=3&geocode=FeLKbQIdoK1U-Q&split=0&ll=40.719664,-111.862729&spn=0.007774,0.019226&t=k&z=16

Coincidence?

Mike this is true, but unfortunatly its at about 2400 South, which puts it much further out.

And the existing SLCC is due east of there even further away from those coordinates. I'm not sure what to make of it.  Perhaps Joe will pull out another gem on this.

[Mike_Cirba]

Kalen,

Do you think there were 2400 blocks in 1900?

That's my point...I'm thinking that the city got much larger, more condensed, etc., which created the need for many more numbered streets.

THere is no mention of any moves or any other activities between this time and 1910 which would have brought it to Forest Dale land.

[Kalen Braley]

Is this what is now the Forest Dale Golf Course?  I think it is.

http://www.slcgov.com/publicservices/golf/Forest%20Dale.htm

Yes

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

Do you think there were 2400 blocks in 1900?

That's my point...I'm thinking that the city got much larger, more condensed, etc., which created the need for many more numbered streets.

THere is no mention of any moves or any other activities between this time and 1910 which would have brought it to Forest Dale land.

Thats an interesting theory, although it would only have to pertain to N/S block designation.  Because if it was consitent in all directions, then 9th East of back then would be something else as well.

There is also a park on the other side of the freeway from the existing Forest Dale.  I've always wondered if hwy 80 which came in years later chopped that course in two and perhaps there was 18 holes at that location once upon a time.

I took a picture of a really old footbridge that currently exists between the 6th green and 7th tee...maybe that was the "canal".  I'll post it later tonight when I get home.

[Mike_Cirba]

Kalen,

Any new info?   Thanks!

[Kalen Braley]

I'm not sure what else I can add at this point. Here is the bridge I was referring to that is no longer used but still there. 

[Mike_Cirba]

Kalen,

Is it me, or is there a remarkable similarity?

Did Brigham Young ever take a trip to Scotland to study golf courses?    




Time to get back to those shipping manifests! 

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen,

Is it me, or is there a remarkable similarity?

Did Brigham Young ever take a trip to Scotland to study golf courses?    




Time to get back to those shipping manifests! 

Ha ha, indeed looks just like it.  Why travel half way across the world to have a go at the Swilican bridge, I got my own just a few miles away. 

Let me send another email to my contact and see if I can't get the ball rolling on getting my paws on the SLCC's history.

Kalen

[Scott_Park]

Mike,

I think the distinguishing landmark in the article is the hole on top of the bench which would most likely be north and east of Forest Dale and would be consistent with the 9th S and 9th E location. 

Once one gets south of the Parley's drainage, the bench is even further east which would seem to make Forest Dale less likely.

Please pass along any other info that you find.

Scott

[Kalen Braley]

Mike,

I think the distinguishing landmark in the article is the hole on top of the bench which would most likely be north and east of Forest Dale and would be consistent with the 9th S and 9th E location. 

Once one gets south of the Parley's drainage, the bench is even further east which would seem to make Forest Dale less likely.

Please pass along any other info that you find.

Scott

Scott,

I drove right thru that intersection on the way home today and even 9th East and 9th South doesn't look anything like those drawings ...its still pretty flat and aways away from any real view on the bench.

If anything, the way in which the course is described by that article sounds like its current location.  Its a baffler indeed.

[Scott_Park]

Kalen,

First of all, thanks for the various reports on golf in SLC- brings back a lot of great memeories.  As far as the original SLCC- assuming the course starting at 9th S and 9th East.  The view from the bench is more in the 10th to 11th East area.   

1) the first hole a distance of 300 yards to the south
  -(green located midway between 10th and 11th South and 9th East)

2) The second hole is north- east 250 yards
  -(green located 10th South and 10th East)

3) the third 312 yards southeast
  -(green located midway between 11th and 12th South and 10th East)

4) The fourth hole is 280 yards east across a magnificent hazard of the old canal built by Brigham Young with which old residents are all familiar
  -(green located midway between 11th and 12th S and midway between 11th and 12th E )

5) The fifth hole is 245 yards dlrectly north running along the top of the bench on Tenth East and below Ninth South with a beautiful view of the surrounding valley
  -(green located 10th S and midway between 11th and 12th E )

Scott

[Jon Nolan]

Wow, fantastic information.  Thanks.

9th and 9th is on flat ground but it goes significantly uphill to the east.  Based on those hole descriptions it appears the course meanders up to 10th east which is a slight incline from ninth.  As one continues east it gets increasingly steeper until a ball breaker of a climb between 12th and 13th east.  The hole descriptions put the eastern limit at 12th east which makes a lot of sense.  That's a natural boundary.  The southern limit of 12th south puts the course in a square defined by 9th to 12th south and 9th to 12th east.  There's a great deal of variation in the land within that grid.  Now that I've read this thread I'll have to keep my eyes open as I go through that area.  I work nearby and lunch or chores often take me that direction.

That area is not really downtown even today.  It's squarely residential with a little (fairly contrived) Bohemian vibe centered on the 9th/9th intersection.  South Temple (Brigham Street) in those days was the domicile of the rich and famous with plenty made so from the mining industry.  The 19th century buildings stretch pretty far east up towards the university but not much further south than 2nd south.  Even the old Salt City was a bit north of 9th/9th.  It was largely inhabited by miners and other unsavory sorts and in those days was very much a separate town from Salt Lake City which was centered on church and member related development.

I honestly don't know when sprawl brought all of the north valley together.  Trolley Square at 7th east and 6th south started operation as an electric trolley facility in the early 1900s.  Typically that sort of joint is pushed to the outskirts of town rather than in the midst of the current development.  I think it's very likely that 9th and 9th was in the sticks at the turn of the century.

Also, I know it's just a drawing but the scale of the mountains (assumed to be to the north and the City Creek area) is about right for 9th and 9th.

edit:  One more thing.  I don't know anything about the canal mentioned but the Red Butte drainage seems to pass through or just at the edge of the southern part of the parcel after approaching from the northeast.  Is it possible a canal's origin could be in that area right after the big drop from the bench at 13th east?  I can barely spell irrigation correctly (did I?)

[Mike_Cirba]

So, if we're now pretty sure that the first SLC CC was at 9th + 9th and not at Forest Dale as legend woild have us believe, when did the club move due south to FD and who designed it?

Kalen...any luck with the friend who has the history book?

Let's get this one!

[Scott_Park]

Does the following seem plausible?-

1900 - Gilmer Home Leased-To this end the members leased for two years the Gilmer property situated on corner of Ninth East and Ninth South

1905 - Forest Dale built as SLCC

1920's- SLCC moves to current location; course designed by William P. Bell (per SLCC website)
(what prompted move?)

1935- Salt Lake City acquires coure (per slcgov website)
(who owned/ran the course from the 1920's to 1935?)

[Mike_Cirba]

Scott,

The only problem with that theory is I've yet to find a mention of the course/club moving thru 1910 nor have I found any proof that Forest Dale actually ever was the SLC CC course.

Kalen knows someone who has the club history book so it would be interesting to see what that reveals...I've tried to get a copy to no avail.

[Mike_Cirba]

I'm beginning to suspect that Forest Dale was never SLC CC.

In 1906 William Hoare became pro at SLC CC and made a hole in one on the 185 yard 6th hole.

In 1909, President Taft visited SLC and on one day he visited Liberty Park til 4, played golf at SLC CC for an hour afterwards, and then went to dinner at 6, so that sounds like the 9th and 9th location to me.

By 1924, Forest Dale existed as a private club and there's a mention of a caddie who made a hole-in-one on a 200 yard hole.   The newspapers I have run through 1910 and pick up again in the late 20s so there's a gap I'm still investigating.

Lots of interclub activities took place between private and public teams through the 20s featuring The Country Club, Nibley Park, Forest Dale, Fort Douglas, and Ogden, and sometimes travelled to play the sandgreens at Magna.

Ok guys...here's one for you...what course is this?   

[Jon Nolan]

Bonneville.  Original nine anyway.

Just as interesting is the head pro's name. 

[Mike_Cirba]

Well...I found something pretty good.

Forest Dale was indeed the 2nd course of the SLC CC, and opened July 4th, 1906.   Still searching for archie attribution.

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