[Lyne Morrison]

Folks - just noted on GeoffShackelford.com that 'Tom Morris of St Andrews' by David Malcolm and Peter Crabtree has picked up the 2008 USGA Book Award

http://www.geoffshackelford.com/homepage/2009/2/18/tom-morris-of-st-andrews-wins-2008-usga-award.html

http://www.usga.org/news/2009/february/bookaward.html

Apparently $1400 per copy - has anyone had a read as yet?

Cheers -- Lyne

[Anthony Gray]

  I'm waitng for my copy of


    "Tom Paul of GCA"

    a steal at $1,400.

  Anthony

[TEPaul]

Anthony:

I'll go you one better. Just sent ME a check for the rock bottom/cost plus zero price of $1,298 and it's all yours. I'll even handle the S&H. That's a saving of $102 My Man, and THAT can buy you about a case and a half of the best Lancers Effervesence.


Lyne:

What exactly is this Old Tom book to be that expensive? Is Melvyn in on the take on this book? If so I have no doubt he'll use the income to fund some kind of Scottish Al Queda outfit that will come over here and like try to blow up our most important cart companies and such.

[Sean_A]

I think originally there were copies for for a few hundred quid.  I am assuming this $1400 version is some sort of special edition.  I thought long and hard about buying a copy for a few hundred, but decided not to.  Its just too damn much money for a book.  Though my guess is the book will go up in value.

Ciao

[Brad Tufts]

I agree with Sean.

I would love to read it, as I love to read all books on golf.

But, 1400 or 300 or whatever is too much.  Yes, I can theoretically go to a library or interlibrary loan or whatever to see the book, but still.

[C. Squier]

I vaguely remember conversation about this book, I thought it was ~$800.  Guess I should've bought a few if going rate is $1400. 

Took a lot of consternation to buy TCG at ~$400.  $1400 is lightyears out of my league.  But I'm sure it's a great read.

[Ronald Montesano]

What does that make, twelve years running that a book about Old Tom or Young Tom or Some Tom wins the award?  Light year for golf tomes or what?  Who is on this USGA committee that selects the winner?

[Neil_Crafter]

I'm changing my name to Tom!

Maybe I'll be in with a chance then.

The book is published by Rhod McEwan in Ballater Scotland, by all accounts its a very nice production but sets some pretty high price marks. Don't think it will be remaindered either!

[Lyne Morrison]

TEPaul – it is possible to follow the links to peruse additional detail of the book. Neil suggests it is a pretty good publication – I am sure it is.

Just to digress for a moment TE – I was thinking just yesterday about the varied discussion and breadth of knowledge we have here on this site. Being new to gca I feel it is a wonderful thing to have exposure to folk like yourself, Melvyn, Ralph Livingston and the many others – to hear your collective knowledge about different aspects of the soul of the game. Melvyn with that extraordinary heritage that inevitably becomes caught in a cultural melee from time to time because his personal golfing values are far removed from the modern game - and Ralph with his intimate understanding and love of just how the game was played in times gone by – and able to produce that fine image of Ouimet’s club so quickly for all to ponder.

Personally, I think it is a good thing to be reminded of how far the game has travelled and from whence we have come – worthwhile in my opinion. However, I can’t help but feel that we won’t always have that knowledge readily available – and when it is gone …well, it is gone. Well done to Ran for allowing us to indulge, listen and learn.

Cheers  -- Lyne

[Niall C]

I got some chat from Melvyn on it last week. Apparently he gave them some info but they didn't use much other than some photos. Melvyn reckoned there were a few gaps missing in the story but I'm sure he will be on sooner rather than later to tell you about it.

I would love to have a look myself but at $1400 I think I might have to wait to win the lottery first.

Niall

[TEPaul]

Lyne:

Regarding your Reply #8, I think it is a wonderful thing to have a truly wide diversity of opinion on this website that is certainly bracketed on one side by the likes of Melvyn (I don't know Mr. Livingston's philosophy that well yet).

My idea, as I've said many times on here is sort of reflected in what I generally call "The Big World Theory"---ie golf and golf architecture really is a great big and remarkably wide and diverse thing and that is, in my opinion, basically its enduring strength---eg a very wide spectrum!

So for that reason alone it is wonderful to have someone on here with Melvyn's opinions.

The only enduring fly in the ointment is it seems the flipside of golf and golfers is that so many feel their own opinion is the only way golf or golf architecture ought to be and for everyone. I have recognized this about golf and golfers for many years and it is something I'm quite sure I will never be able to explain or completely understand. But perhaps that too is one of its fundamental strengths---it is enduringly inscrutable, and perhaps hopefully always will be.

[TEPaul]

"What does that make, twelve years running that a book about Old Tom or Young Tom or Some Tom wins the award?  Light year for golf tomes or what?  Who is on this USGA committee that selects the winner?"


RonaldM:

Would you mind elaborating on what you mean by that? I don't believe a book about one of the Morrises or even some Tom has won the USGA Book Award twelve years running particularly since I think Philalephia's Jim Finegan's book won last year.

Do you mean there has been a book written every year for the last twelve about the Morris family and if so why do you think that might be?

I'm not at all sure how much or how little I know or understand about Old Tom Morris at this point but I suspect there certainly was something about him that was wholly unique in the entire history of golf. I have no idea if what I mean by that (fairly specifically) has ever been mentioned or dealt with in any of those books but I'd be glad to explain at some point what I mean by that.

[Joel Zuckerman]

Past Recipients of the Herbert Warren Wind Award

2007 - Kevin Cook, Tommy’s Honor
2006 - James Finegan, Where Golf Is Great
2005 - John Strege, When War Played Through
2004 - James Dodson, Ben Hogan, An American Life
2003 - Phil Pilley, Heather and Heaven
2002 - Mark Frost, The Greatest Game Ever Played
2001 - Bradley S. Klein, Discovering Donald Ross: The Architect and His Golf Courses
2000 - Stephen Lowe, Sir Walter and Mr. Jones
1999 - David Owen, The Making of the Masters
1998 - Lawrence Donegan, Maybe It Should Have Been a Three-Iron
1997 - Davis Love III, Every Shot I Take
1992 - Rhonda Glenn, The Illustrated History of Women’s
1991 - Bobby Burnet, The St. Andrews Opens
1990 - Robert Trent Jones Sr. with Larry Dennis, Golf’s Magnificent Challenge
1989 - Phil Pilley, Golfing Art
1987 - Al Barkow, Getting to the Dance Floor

No award was given in 1988 or from 1993-1996.

[Dan Moore]

Looks like less than than 500 editions have been printed; an exclusive  "Subscribers edition of which 87 copies were printed (reportedly sold out) and 395 copies of the "Keeper of the Green" edition with 395 copies printed. 

The price of the Keeper of the Green edition is roughly $566.00 (coverted from $395 lbs). 

Here is the ordering information. 

http://www.rhodmcewan.com/tom_morris/index.htm

[Joel Zuckerman]

Wow----leave it to the blue coats at the USGA to give the book award to a leather-bound tome that not one in 100,000 golfers will ever even SEE, never mind have the interest or wherewithal to purchase.

Talk about exclusionary.....

(And yes--I'm slightly bitter!)

[TEPaul]

JoelZ:

I'm really not sure why the USGA always has to be the whipping boy for just about everything and just because they gave this book their annual award----even though I most certainly catch your point.

Why don't people blame or at least question the source---eg the people who wrote and published this book for pricing it like this? What's up with that and who are they, where are they; is the thing printed on gold-leave paper or something?

And beyond that, I'm getting tired of too many on the other side too often and too gratuitously slamming America and Americans for kitting prices on golf with carts, construction and maintenance costs, too high greens fees, exclusionary private club practices over here etc, etc, and then these people over there market a book for $1,400??

What's up? Do they want a definition on hypocrisy because I'd be glad to give it to them. Belay that, I guess I just did. 

[PCCraig]

Why in the heck is a new book $1,400???

I sort of understand out of print collector books and the such, but a NEW book? Huh?

[Terry Thornton]

 
The price of the Keeper of the Green edition is roughly $566.00 (coverted from $395 lbs). 

Feel free to borrow one of these - ££££

(I'm a little slow this morning, took me ages to work out what 395lbs was!)

[David_Elvins]

took me ages to work out what 395lbs was!

A bloody heavy book. No wonder it costs so much.

[TEPaul]

Wait a minute. It looks like bad info and bad math here. Look at Dan Moore's post #13. It looks like 500 copies were printed, a special edition of 87 copies at $1,400 were marketed and sold out. That should gross the authors and publisher $121,800. The remainder (395) are for sale at $566.00 a copy. If they sold out the 395 that would gross them $223,570. Total that up and that seems to gross Malcolm, Crabtree and MacEwan $345,000+ with a run of 500 copies published.

Is that unreasonably priced for a low volume run like that, and given the authors apparently put years of work product into this book? I don't really know. It seems to look like it to us or me on a per book price basis but I'm not that up on publishing costs or author costs and price given a pretty low volume run.

If the special edition of 87 books at $1,400 has been sold out why are some on here saying the book can be bought today for no less than $1,400? What's going on with the 395 books that Dan Moore says are still for sale at $566.00 a copy? If someone sends the publisher $1,400 for a book and gets the $566.00 version is the publisher going to make them aware there's a difference?

For me, I can tell you I love golf architectural history and golf history and most all the books that track it and I definitely ain't poor either but no way am I buying a new special edition new golf book on Old Tom Morris for $1,400 or the seemingly non-luxury model for $566.00 a copy.

Hell, since I'm not all that far away I'll make the trip to the USGA's new Palmer History Center and read their copy and do some additional golf architecture research on some other things with the rest of my time up there.

But that's not all I have to say. I've never heard of a biography this expensive; not even close with even the $566.00 version. Is this out of line and where is the critical review of the price alone from some of the people who criticize golf constantly, including constantly criticizing the USGA? Where is GeoffShackelford's opinion on this book and its price? He put it on his website but I don't see any review or any comment from him on the price.

Why?

[Anthony Gray]

Why in the heck is a new book $1,400???

I sort of understand out of print collector books and the such, but a NEW book? Huh?

  This is the question everyone is asking. What is the ansewr?

  Anthony

[Joe Hancock]

TEPaul,

Just imagine, if you will, what you're net worth would be if you'd been paid even as little as $1 per paragraph on GCA.com over the years.....

This book you guys are talking about may be under priced, in that context.

Joe

[Anthony Gray]

Wait a minute. It looks like bad info and bad math here. Look at Dan Moore's post #13. It looks like 500 copies were printed, a special edition of 87 copies at $1,400 were marketed and sold out. That should gross the authors and publisher $121,800. The remainder (395) are for sale at $566.00 a copy. If they sold out the 395 that would gross them $223,570. Total that up and that seems to gross Malcolm, Crabtree and MacEwan $345,000+ with a run of 500 copies published.

Is that unreasonably priced for a low volume run like that, and given the authors apparently put years of work product into this book? I don't really know. It seems to look like it to us or me on a per book price basis but I'm not that up on publishing costs give a pretty low volume run.

If the special edition of 87 books at $1,400 has been sold out why are some on here saying the book can be bought today for no less than $1,400? What's going on with the 395 books that Dan Moore says are for sale at $566.00 a copy?

For me, I can tell you I love golf architectural history and golf history and I definitely ain't poor either but no way am I buying a new special edition new golf book for $1,400 or the seemingly non-luxury model for $566.00 a copy.

Hell, since I'm not all that far away I'll make the trip to the USGA's new Palmer History Center and read their copy and do some additional golf architecture research on some other things with the rest of my time up there.

But that's not all I have to say. I've never heard of a biography this expensive; not even close with even the $566.00 version. Is this out of line and where is the critical review of the price alone from some of the people who criticize golf constantly, including constantly criticizing the USGA? Where is GeoffShackelford's opinion on this book and its price? He put it on his website but I don't see any review or any comment from him on the price.

  You would not pay $1400 for "Tom Morris of St Andrews" when you are charging $1,350 for "Tom Paul of Golf Club Atlas". I realize your place in the history of the game but I new John Kenedy and you are no....................

  Anthony

 

[PCCraig]

Wait a minute. It looks like bad info and bad math here. Look at Dan Moore's post #13. It looks like 500 copies were printed, a special edition of 87 copies at $1,400 were marketed and sold out. That should gross the authors and publisher $121,800. The remainder (395) are for sale at $566.00 a copy. If they sold out the 395 that would gross them $223,570. Total that up and that seems to gross Malcolm, Crabtree and MacEwan $345,000+ with a run of 500 copies published.

Is that unreasonably priced for a low volume run like that, and given the authors apparently put years of work product into this book? I don't really know. It seems to look like it to us or me on a per book price basis but I'm not that up on publishing costs give a pretty low volume run.

If the special edition of 87 books at $1,400 has been sold out why are some on here saying the book can be bought today for no less than $1,400? What's going on with the 395 books that Dan Moore says are for sale at $566.00 a copy?

For me, I can tell you I love golf architectural history and golf history and I definitely ain't poor either but no way am I buying a new special edition new golf book for $1,400 or the seemingly non-luxury model for $566.00 a copy.

Hell, since I'm not all that far away I'll make the trip to the USGA's new Palmer History Center and read their copy and do some additional golf architecture research on some other things with the rest of my time up there.

But that's not all I have to say. I've never heard of a biography this expensive; not even close with even the $566.00 version. Is this out of line and where is the critical review of the price alone from some of the people who criticize golf constantly, including constantly criticizing the USGA? Where is GeoffShackelford's opinion on this book and its price? He put it on his website but I don't see any review or any comment from him on the price.

  You would not pay $1400 for "Tom Morris of St Andrews" when you are charging $1,350 for "Tom Paul of Golf Club Atlas". I realize your place in the history of the game but I new John Kenedy and you are no....................

  Anthony

 

John who?

[Mark Pritchett]

This book might be a better investment than the stock market!

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