[Bill_Yates]

Would replacing Poppy Hills with either the Bayonet or Black Horse Course be a good move?  Apparently, the PGA Tour is scouting around.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2009/02/12/SPB815T2PF.DTL

[Adam Clayman]

Bill, IMO, this would be an error. Not because of the GCA, but because of the proximity of the existing rota courses creates a feeling in the forest like no other I know of or heard of.

Since the public parking is on the old Fort Ord, I suspect the company would view this as a potential revenue loss. Which means they would have to structure any deal to make up for that.

[Bill_Yates]

Adam,
I agree.  The AT&T (Crosby) has always been about tradition and the proximity of the courses.  I also think it would be a logistical nightmare to truck people on and off the peninsula. 

But what does the tour do about the Poppy Hills complaints they are apparently getting? 

[David_Elvins]

It would be good if it went to Black Horse.

Becasue a car park would be the best use for Bayonet IMO.

[Bill_Yates]

David,
Should they park on the greens or fairways?

[Adam Clayman]

Pros complaining? I'm shocked, truly shocked!

I suspect the tour plays a lot worse venues than old Poppy Hills. While it gets a bad rap, it does have some tough company to keep with it's neighbors.

Poppy Hills is a great place because it is owned and operated by the Northern Cal Golf Assoc.. They conduct many many tournaments there, from associate club championships to all sorts of categories. Norcal really is a great place to be a golfer and especially a golfer who is interested in playing in some tournaments that actually mean something, representing your club.

With Spyglass Hill being turned over in 7 years, Poppy could consider making investments into their GCA, with an emphasis on drainage.

From the sound of it, the recent alterations where mere band-aids, but, I haven't heard of the results. I'm just going on the early reports of changes to the 11th and 12th. Could someone report what's there today?

I don't want to start another thread, but, anyone watching the telecast and specifically the 7th at Pebble.  Who heretofore didn't think much of the hole, I find it's showing it's exceptional qualities with the breeze off the water, today. few if anyone is getting it close to a mid-back center pin position, all of 107 yards downhill.


also, the logistics are already perfected. Its the company that wants those people who park at ft ord to spend their denaros within the gate.

[Matthew Mollica]

How about they move the whole show to Bandon?

MM

[PCCraig]

With Spyglass Hill being turned over in 7 years, Poppy could consider making investments into their GCA, with an emphasis on drainage.

What do you mean turned over? To who?

[cary lichtenstein]

I nominate a return to Cypress

[J_ Crisham]

My vote would be to include MPCC composite as has been described by Bob Huntley in the past. The holes that are played along the shore on both courses are spectacular. I recall at some point years ago MPCC was a part of the rota. I assume this was prior to Spyglass. Not sure if the club would want it, but is there a finer 36 hole club on the West coast?
                                                           Jack

[Joel_Stewart]

I was there yesterday (Friday) and walked Poppy Hills in the morning followed by a round at MPCC shore in the afternoon.  At 9am Poppy's range was wet, very soggy but I really liked the way they had the clubhouse set up and everyone seemed happy despite the cold weather.  Seems like the pros hit balls on one side of the range and the amatuers on the other.  When Justin Timberlake came in he went directly down to the pro side to be with Fred Couples his partner.   The women followed, many in heels which was quite a site since the grass was so soggy.

Poppy is just so convient that I doubt they would change.  Fort Ord is so far away that I think it would be diificult unless they add more celebrities and spread them out.

MPCC was packed on Friday at noon.  Sure it would be a great venue and maybe since they may want the money but it's a huge disruption.  The shore course was amazingly playable despite all the rain.  The fairways drain perfectly, no standing water at all and the fairways have to be some of the tightest I have seen.   The greens have some problems but with a tournament like the AT&T I'm sure they could get them in shape.

[Adam Clayman]

Pat, The NCGA and The PB Co. went into partnership to build Spyglass Hill. The deal allowed the NCGA to use the course as it's home for 50 years. That fifty ends in 2016.

[Bill_Yates]

Final Round weather update!

No matter what the venue, today will be an exciting day if you love watching the pros getting blown off of their feet.  It is extremely windy with sudden gusts for added interest.  Should be an interesting final round. 

[Ronald Montesano]

So what are the ramifications of the deal ending in 2016?  Will a new one be negotiated?

[Adam Clayman]

No, Ronald. The PB Company takes over the course full time in 2016.

As it were, the members at Spyglass had tee times from approx. 8:30 to 10 a.m. daily, with an extra hour, or so, on weekends. The membership was/is very low cost, had/has a waiting list a mile long. The green fees charged guests when playing with a member held steady at around $20. There was a year in year out rotation for many of the NCGA championships between Poppy and Spy. That gave everybody a chance to play Spy every other year if you played in the same championship year after year.  After 2016, I assume they will all be held at Poppy.

[Ronald Montesano]

Ouch...now there's a break-up.  I'd be in mourning already.

[Joel_Stewart]

Pat, The NCGA and The PB Co. went into partnership to build Spyglass Hill. The deal allowed the NCGA to use the course as it's home for 50 years. That fifty ends in 2016.

Adam:
Seems like I heard that they recently renogiated the contract and it runs for an additional 2 years until 2018.  The Spyglass membership agreed to release some starting times in the morning to the Pebble Beach Company.  It appears to be a win - win for both parties.

[Joe Bausch]

Final Round weather update!

No matter what the venue, today will be an exciting day if you love watching the pros getting blown off of their feet.  It is extremely windy with sudden gusts for added interest.  Should be an interesting final round. 

The best part of the extreme windy weather is that the amateurs will not be out there today.  I'll be happy about this!  From the PGATOUR.com web page:

WEATHER UPDATE: PEBBLE BEACH, Calif. (AP) -- Raging wind toppled a 40-foot Monterey pine across the third fairway at Pebble Beach as the forecast of nasty weather finally arrived Sunday morning, leaving the final round of the AT&T Pebble Beach National Pro-Am in doubt.

Dustin Johnson had a four-shot lead going into the final round, where he'll try to join Anthony Kim as the only players under 25 with multiple victories on the PGA TOUR.

Starting times were delayed by two hours after a steady rain overnight soaked Pebble Beach.

Then, officials decided to cancel the final round of the pro-am, meaning there would not be any amateurs competing to help reduce the size of the field and allow the tournament to finish Sunday. A total of 68 pros made the cut, and tee times were pushed back to 1:45 p.m. PT.

But even with occasional bursts of sunshine appearing, the attention shifted to the wind.

Check out the tree that came down at #3 from the wind:

[Cliff Hamm]

I nominate a return to Cypress

It is a shame that Cypress refused to open up its admissions policy so that it was non-discriminatory or the the Crosby/AT&T would hopefully still be there.

[Bill_Yates]

Can we explore the MPCC option?  I'd love to hear from Bob Huntley or any other "insider's" point of view. 

And by the way, what are the specific complaints the tour players have about Poppy Hills?

[Ed Oden]

There is virtually no TV coverage of any action other than at Pebble.  At the end of the day, this is really just a Pebble Beach tournament.  The other courses are largely irrelevant in terms of media coverage, marketing and public awareness.  Spyglass and Poppy are there simply to increase the size of the pro-am field.  Would it really be any different if these courses were replaced?  CPC excluded, I doubt it.  I suspect even a move to MPCC would be covered substantially similar to the current rota.

Ed

[Mike Benham]

I nominate a return to Cypress

It is a shame that Cypress refused to open up its admissions policy so that it was non-discriminatory or the the Crosby/AT&T would hopefully still be there.

Cliff -

I'm sure others will chime in but I believe your comment is incorrect, based on an assumption.

You are assuming that CPC's admissions policy discriminated ...

Mike


Ps:  Why the infatuation with having CPC back in the rotation?  On one hand, everyone complains that the AT&T Crosby is an unwatchable golf tournament with all the celebrity shenanigans and the reintroduction of CPC will only provide more hit and giggle (or singing or joking) shots of celebrities dumping their tee shots in the Pacific on #16.  Why not leave the old lady alone.

[Joel_Stewart]

A return to Cypress may sound good but it's not feasable based on the golf course.  Read the Sandy Tatum interview and he discusses how CPC is not a tournament course anymore.  I guess it could be qualified that if the wind was blowing 20 knots or better then it would qualify.  I have to believe the club would not want the pros out there shooting 62's and driving 3 or 4 of the par 4's.

What about Spanish Bay?   

[Bill_Yates]

My guess is that Spanish Bay could not hold any galleries.  With all the environmentally sensitive areas lining many of the fairways (which by the way is a real tribute to golf's reclamation of what was once an industrial sand mine),  there would be no room for spectators.  Couple that with no TV coverage and why bother?

[Cliff Hamm]

I nominate a return to Cypress

It is a shame that Cypress refused to open up its admissions policy so that it was non-discriminatory or the the Crosby/AT&T would hopefully still be there.

Cliff -

I'm sure others will chime in but I believe your comment is incorrect, based on an assumption.

You are assuming that CPC's admissions policy discriminated ...

Mike...from the New York Times,  January 31, 1991:

Last year, Cypress Point was the first of five private clubs which chose not to conform to PGA Tour's new antidiscrimination policy for tournament sites. The policy was enacted after the issue of racially exclusionary private clubs erupted before the P.G.A. Championship at Shoal Creek, which was then all white.

Cypress has never had a black among its 240 members, and no black is on its seven-year waiting list for membership. When the club in August was presented with the new PGA Tour guidelines that required "satisfactory evidence that the club would take appropriate and immediate action to encourage minority membership," it voted to stop its association with the A. T. & T.


When a club refuses to conform to an anti discrimination policy I would have to say discrimination is a factor in the club's admissions policy.

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