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Lester George

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Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2009, 11:50:37 AM »

The Old White at the Greenbrier.

Great opening hole (iconic) and follows an 18th hole par three (short) finish.

Lester

Tom Huckaby

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2009, 11:53:58 AM »
1sts and 18ths as a pair would work nicely also... good call there, Steve.

And of course par three openers are great for this too - also great call, Bob!

Again it would have to fall back on convenience.

Are there any other great 1-2s or 1-18s that would work?

TH

Steve Salmen

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Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2009, 11:56:30 AM »
Sure Tom,

North Berwick, Prestwick, TOC

Tom Huckaby

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2009, 11:59:16 AM »
Sure Tom,

North Berwick, Prestwick, TOC

Excellent... yeah must be lots of those, particularly in Scotland.

How about 1-2s?  Figure most people want to keep hole order....

TH

TX Golf

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Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2009, 12:05:29 PM »
Anything with a solid par 3 near the clubhouse would have to be a great pick. Especially one which is very visible from the clubhouse, making the pressure build even a touch more!!!

Here in NorCal I can think of the 8th at Olympic and the 12th at Cal Club, both of which are great par 3s, visible from the clubhouse, and extremely close to the 18th green!!!

Edit: the 15th at Dallas Country Club also would qualify.

Just a though.

Robert
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 12:07:11 PM by Robert Warren »

Tom Huckaby

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2009, 12:12:13 PM »
Robert - 12 at Cal Club would be PERFECT for this.... and then if still tied you could march over to 18 and play that... lather rinse repeat.

8 at Olympic got shifted a lot... would be a long walk to that tee how.. it's more over by where 3 tee is now.

But that's a good call too - strong par threes near clubhouse.  To that end, playing 10-11-18 at Pasatiempo works pretty darn well for this too.

TH

Steve Salmen

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Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2009, 12:13:41 PM »
Chicago Golf Club has a great 1 and 18.  It also has a fine short hole, #10 over water, near the clubhouse.

Sam Morrow

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2009, 12:21:18 PM »
Anything with a solid par 3 near the clubhouse would have to be a great pick. Especially one which is very visible from the clubhouse, making the pressure build even a touch more!!!

Here in NorCal I can think of the 8th at Olympic and the 12th at Cal Club, both of which are great par 3s, visible from the clubhouse, and extremely close to the 18th green!!!

Edit: the 15th at Dallas Country Club also would qualify.

Just a though.

Robert

Robert,

15 At DCC would be great though I'm more a fan of 16 that could work too.

TX Golf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2009, 12:30:31 PM »
Tom,

As much fun as it would be to play the 12-18 loop a bunch of times, I have a good feeling that a par on 12 might do the trick of closing out the match. ;) I just really like the idea of having to hit the tee shot on a par 3 in front of a bunch of people (not that there are ever too many people out at Cal). Also, it is kind of nice that the 12th tee is about 10 yards from the 18th green.

Also, have you seen any photos of the new tee on 8 on Olympic. I have heard some stuff and am trying to visualize it but I am having some troubles. I am assuming quite a few trees are coming down to make this possible?? Maybe Mike can chime in.

Pasatiempo is a good call as well

Sam,

I am more of a fan of the 16th as well... but it doesn't have the viewing area that the 15th does. The 19th hole (bar version) has windows that look out over the 15th green. Also, people tend to sit on the little hillside behind 15 in the evening with a drink or two. Either one would be a good option.




« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 12:39:51 PM by Robert Warren »

PCCraig

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Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #34 on: February 10, 2009, 12:36:31 PM »
This whole thing makes no sense. Does the best 19th hole ACTUALLY have to be a true 19th hole?

Who the hell goes to play another hole on the course they just played to settle bets??? Why would someone go out back to the 12th hole for the shot value???
H.P.S.

Sam Morrow

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #35 on: February 10, 2009, 12:45:47 PM »
This whole thing makes no sense. Does the best 19th hole ACTUALLY have to be a true 19th hole?

Who the hell goes to play another hole on the course they just played to settle bets??? Why would someone go out back to the 12th hole for the shot value???

Maybe the best 19th hole is actually the best practice green, that's where I've often settled bets.

Tom Huckaby

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #36 on: February 10, 2009, 12:49:17 PM »
Robert:

You're so right re 12 Cal Club!.  Likely would be a one and done most of the time.... with 3 being the winner!

Re OClub, I saw it in person a few weeks ago... the green is more or less where it was - shifted a little toward #2, if that makes sense... but the main thing is the TEE is way over by #3 tee.  The entire hole shifted direction about 45 degrees.  Thus the long walk from 18 green now... it wouldn't be a long walk to the GREEN, but the tee would be just that much farther in the same direction.   Note it's also seeming to be a pretty long walk from where they are putting the new 7 green (30 yards or so directly back from where old 7 green was, in old 8 fairway) to where new 8 tee will be... but far be it from me to question the powers that be at Olympic Club.

And Pat, this is of course all just hypothetical, at least here in the USA.  ;)


Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2009, 01:01:44 PM »
Perhaps it was missed, but #1 and #2 at PG are no good as I mentioned previously in this thread?

Both near the clubhouse, both par 3s, both come as a logical 19 and 20, and its the most feasible in not interrupting current other matches on the course, like 10, 17, 18 on Pasa most certainly would.

Tom Huckaby

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2009, 01:04:26 PM »
Perhaps it was missed, but #1 and #2 at PG are no good as I mentioned previously in this thread?

Both near the clubhouse, both par 3s, both come as a logical 19 and 20, and its the most feasible in not interrupting current other matches on the course, like 10, 17, 18 on Pasa most certainly would.

Glossed over that Kalen - maybe it was Rich accusing me of a hissy fit or your "interesting" picture."  ;D

But of course those would work great, for just the reasons you state.

TH

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2009, 01:19:10 PM »
Perhaps it was missed, but #1 and #2 at PG are no good as I mentioned previously in this thread?

Both near the clubhouse, both par 3s, both come as a logical 19 and 20, and its the most feasible in not interrupting current other matches on the course, like 10, 17, 18 on Pasa most certainly would.

Glossed over that Kalen - maybe it was Rich accusing me of a hissy fit or your "interesting" picture."  ;D

But of course those would work great, for just the reasons you state.

TH

Whew...I can sleep tonight then.  I was worried when no one said a word about it and it seemed to be the best solution that I have seen as of yet on this thread.   ;D

Will MacEwen

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2009, 01:36:22 PM »
This whole thing makes no sense. Does the best 19th hole ACTUALLY have to be a true 19th hole?

Who the hell goes to play another hole on the course they just played to settle bets??? Why would someone go out back to the 12th hole for the shot value???

Maybe the best 19th hole is actually the best practice green, that's where I've often settled bets.

Bear Mountain in Victoria, BC has a 19th hole par 3 for the express purpose of settling bets or having a final KP contest.  I've never played it so I can't say much about it.

Peter Ferlicca

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2009, 01:49:48 PM »
How about the actual 19th hole at Stone Eagle at 151 yards a perfect hole to settle a tie on.  The aerie bar is right next to the tee too, so everyone can watch them hit their shots.




TX Golf

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #42 on: February 10, 2009, 02:22:22 PM »
Doesnt sebonack also have a 19th hole?

When playing a course with an actual 19th hole, how many people actually stop after 18? I feel like I would have to play that last hole whether it mattered or not!!

Eric Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #43 on: February 10, 2009, 03:00:27 PM »
Olde Farm in Virginia has a great little par 3 19th hole finishing just at the steps of the clubhouse.

(Photo credit to Scott Burroughs)

Lester George

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #44 on: February 10, 2009, 03:58:45 PM »
Kinloch has a great 19th hole. 

I would have used it in the routing had I had different constraints.  Some say it is the best.  Par 3 over water.  I don't know how to post a picture but I think anyone who has played it would agree.

Lester


JMEvensky

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #45 on: February 10, 2009, 04:04:01 PM »
Kinloch has a great 19th hole. 

I would have used it in the routing had I had different constraints.  Some say it is the best.  Par 3 over water.  I don't know how to post a picture but I think anyone who has played it would agree.

Lester



I have and I do.

Jeff_Mingay

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #46 on: February 10, 2009, 04:34:47 PM »
Scarboro in Toronto features a neat little 19th hole, too.

When Tillinghast remodeled the original Geo. Cumming layout at Scarboro during the 1920s, he incorporate a wildly tilted, lay of the land green from the original course to create a short 19th hole... Scarboro's beautiful, historic clubhouse serves as a backdrop here as well.

While it's not one of the best par-3s (or 19th holes) in the world, it's memorable.
jeffmingay.com

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #47 on: February 10, 2009, 05:52:51 PM »
Has anyone mentioned Prairie Dunes #10?

TEPaul

Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #48 on: February 10, 2009, 06:30:11 PM »
Pine Valley's #1 was intentionally designed to serve as a good 19th hole. The model for it in that vein was Hoylake's #1.

You can read the actual documentary evidence of that at Pine Valley on the "Splendid Isolation" thread on post #128. It comes from Crump's close friend and constant playing partner, Father Simon Carr. There will be a bit more about that and its model from his other close friend and constant playing partner down there, W.P Smith.

As for what happens in play-offs, particularly big ones (lots of players) really is very interesting. I know, as I've been in a bunch of them on that hole.

One of the most remarkable playoffs I've seen was as a spectator of the play-off in the finals of a Crump Cup (two man). It ended there and the guy who lost hit one of the gutsiest and most agressive approach shots I ever saw. Had he hit it just a foot left he probably would have birdied and won right there but alas his shot was about a foot too far right and he was down the bank and almost in the woods!   :o

That player, Philadelphia's Chris Lange, probably knows Pine Valley and it's intracacies as well as anyone. He had a 9 iron in there and he is an aggressive player anyway. He hit his approach right at that infamous mid-right Sunday pin. He knew as well as anyone you just can't land right of that pin. He landed about 2-3 feet right of it and after a stop and trickle his ball slowly filtered off the green and tumbled down the bank and almost into the woods!

His opponent, New Jersey's Billy MacGuiness had already hit the perfect approach shot about 15 feet left pin high!
« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 06:48:18 PM by TEPaul »

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The best 19th holes
« Reply #49 on: February 10, 2009, 06:50:24 PM »
Tom Paul,

The picture in the official GCA.com review gives what appears to be a great visual on this.


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