[David Stamm]

No, not the best bar!


Some opening holes are admired for different reasons. Some because they get the player off to a gentle start. Some because it puts you on notice right away. Let's assume you've finished the 18th all square in a match. Which 1st holes make the best deciders in a match? An example: Shackelford points out that the 1st at CPC makes for a great 19th hole match decider. What are some other examples that excel at this? The first at GCGC perhaps?

[Greg Ohlendorf]

David,

I second your suggestion at GCGC as a great 19th. The second would make a pretty good 20th as well!

Greg

[Deucie Bies]

Based solely on Patrick Mucci's NGLA threads, how about NGLA?

I would nominate Oakmont.  It would end the match quickly as it is likely one of the players would make double or worse!

[Mike_Cirba]

The best players I know say that there is no better differentiator than the 1st at Pine Valley to a rear corner pin. 

I've seen no reason to argue.

[Rich Goodale]

David what were you and Geoff smoking when you chose CPC #1?

So you've just climbed up the hill of the 18th, ended up all square, and now you want to hit the goofy over the hedge shot again, walk all the way down to the 1st green, and if you halve that hole, and then others, march out further and further into the Del Monte forest, only to eventually win or lose and then walk all the way back, including a march up the hill which is the 1st fairway.  Even with caddies, that is a recipe for the "Why the hell did we decide to do this?" syndrome.........

To me the best bye holes are those which are a short par-3 which you can play over and over again, if you want to, but never getting more than a couple of hundred yards from the clubhouse.

Yes, it can be thrilling starting to play a great course all over again in a sudden death sort of situation, but as one who did so last August, going 4 extra holes at Dornoch in my afternoon match, after having gone to the 18th in my morning match, that mile long walk back to the clubhouse was agony to me.  It could have only been more agonizing for my opponent, the loser.

Rich

[Anthony Gray]

   First choice North Berwick. The blind secound adds suspense. You don't know who has the best shot until you get close to the green. Secound choice North Berwick.

  Anthony

[JESII]

Pine Valley would seem ideal as the hole yields three's through eight's pretty evenly and the following three holes stay pretty close by with the fourth green right next to the clubhouse...

[Jon Spaulding]

I'd rather tidy up a match at CPC on the 16th than the 1st!

I agree with GCGC.

The 1st at Ballyneal would also be a great option as the tee shot forces the player to choose a line, the green is very interesting, and the wind can be going in any direction.

[Tom Huckaby]

Rich, do you have any stories than do NOT end in glory for you?
 

I do completely agree with my friend there, however.  I think a perfect 19th hole sudden death match decider should not venture far from the clubhouse.. or at the very least should have a companion next to it that returns.  So I tend to like Rich's idea of a par three extra hole for this purpose; however, there are not many of those in real life, are there?

So how about Riviera as a compromise?  Oh you'd have a bit of a climb back up the hill, but heck you're gonna do that anyway.  So march out the other side, go to #1.. play that and if it's not decided, well 2 returns you right back not all that far from 1 tee. Lather, rinse, repeat if necessary.  There have to be other (and perhaps better) examples of that... a #2 that returns... that would seem to work pretty darn well.

TH

[David Stamm]

I do completely agree with my friend there, however.  I think a perfect 19th hole sudden death match decider should not venture far from the clubhouse.. or at the very least should have a companion next to it that returns.  So I tend to like Rich's idea of a par three extra hole for this purpose; however, there are not many of those in real life, are there?

So how about Riviera as a compromise?  Oh you'd have a bit of a climb back up the hill, but heck you're gonna do that anyway.  So march out the other side, go to #1.. play that and if it's not decided, well 2 returns you right back not all that far from 1 tee. Lather, rinse, repeat if necessary.  There have to be other (and perhaps better) examples of that... a #2 that returns... that would seem to work pretty darn well.

TH

So you agree with Rich but then nominate a par 5 with the most elevation change on the property? What are putting in your coffee this morning?

[Tom Huckaby]

David, well.. the point is that I wanted two holes, the 2nd of which returned to the clubhouse.  That was the first example that came to mind.  As I said, there must be better ones.

The point remains that staying close to the clubhouse is paramount for this.  And that is where I agree with Rich.  Since no hole going away from the clubhouse (outside of a tiny par three, and there aren't many of those) would satisfy this, I was thinking of 2nd holes that return.  Riviera fits that.  And of course there have to be better examples.

TH

[David Stamm]

So convenience takes priority over the quality of the design in your opinion? Rich?

[Kalen Braley]

Pacific Grove -

#1 and #2 are two par 3's that could turn into holes 19 and 20 and never be more than a few hundred yards from the clubhouse....or even just play #1 over and over.

[Mark_Rowlinson]

The 1st at Royal Liverpool is often cited as one of the great 19ths, and you're not far from the clubhouse if you end it there or on the 2nd.

[Rich Goodale]

I do completely agree with my friend there, however.  I think a perfect 19th hole sudden death match decider should not venture far from the clubhouse.. or at the very least should have a companion next to it that returns.  So I tend to like Rich's idea of a par three extra hole for this purpose; however, there are not many of those in real life, are there?

So how about Riviera as a compromise?  Oh you'd have a bit of a climb back up the hill, but heck you're gonna do that anyway.  So march out the other side, go to #1.. play that and if it's not decided, well 2 returns you right back not all that far from 1 tee. Lather, rinse, repeat if necessary.  There have to be other (and perhaps better) examples of that... a #2 that returns... that would seem to work pretty darn well.

TH

So you agree with Rich but then nominate a par 5 with the most elevation change on the property? What are putting in your coffee this morning?

David

You must understand Tom, who has a hissy fit whenever anyone other than he pats themselves on the back.  He'll eventually get over the fact that this website is not just all about him......

Rich

[John Shimp]

16 at Palmetto. Right in front of the clubhouse.  Tough 200 place yd par 3 where par almost always wins.

[Anthony Gray]

  A par 5 favours the longer hitter too much. It has to be a par 4.

  Anthony

[Kalen Braley]

We know what the UK's version of what the 19th hole would be....

[PCCraig]

The best 19th hole I know of would be the actual 19th hole at Forest Creek-South.

Called the "Hog Hole" it can play anywhere from 100-210 to a tiny green across a natural lake. The green sits below the clubhouse and the main patio.

Why play yhe 1st hole over again when you have an actual 19th?

Also, who plays just one more hole, if you play extra you play an "EMERGENCY THREE!"

[Sean_A]

No, not the best bar!


Some opening holes are admired for different reasons. Some because they get the player off to a gentle start. Some because it puts you on notice right away. Let's assume you've finished the 18th all square in a match. Which 1st holes make the best deciders in a match? An example: Shackelford points out that the 1st at CPC makes for a great 19th hole match decider. What are some other examples that excel at this? The first at GCGC perhaps?

David

I fall in the camp of convenience first and foremost.  I also think the 19th should be not be a shot hole if avoidable.  

Woking's isn't bad - a reachable par 4 and the course swings back to the house for #3.

Addington starts with a par 3 and the 2nd heads straight past the house.  

Dunbar has holes 1-3 right by the house.  Thats the chap.  Notts also flows back to the house after 3 holes.

Deal's is quite good cruising right in front of the house.

Ciao

[Rich Goodale]

We know what the UK's version of what the 19th hole would be....

Good one, Kalen!

[Tom Huckaby]

I do completely agree with my friend there, however.  I think a perfect 19th hole sudden death match decider should not venture far from the clubhouse.. or at the very least should have a companion next to it that returns.  So I tend to like Rich's idea of a par three extra hole for this purpose; however, there are not many of those in real life, are there?

So how about Riviera as a compromise?  Oh you'd have a bit of a climb back up the hill, but heck you're gonna do that anyway.  So march out the other side, go to #1.. play that and if it's not decided, well 2 returns you right back not all that far from 1 tee. Lather, rinse, repeat if necessary.  There have to be other (and perhaps better) examples of that... a #2 that returns... that would seem to work pretty darn well.

TH

So you agree with Rich but then nominate a par 5 with the most elevation change on the property? What are putting in your coffee this morning?

David

You must understand Tom, who has a hissy fit whenever anyone other than he pats themselves on the back.  He'll eventually get over the fact that this website is not just all about him......

Rich

Wow, that was on weak hissy fit...  Anyway, I figured I was just giving a friend a little "stick."

 

But in any case not answering for Rich, but yes, when it comes to 19th holes as deciders of matches, I vote for convenience being a very important factor.

TH

[Bob_Huntley]

What about Royal Lytham?

Bob

[Rich Goodale]

That's a good one, Bob  Assuming, of course, that if it is halved you go back to the clubhouse and settle the time over a cocktail or two.

[Steve Salmen]

Forest Dunes in Roscommon, MI has a short par 3 over water as a 19th that's pretty cool.

If you get into a playoff at Machrihanish, you get to start on the best first hole in golf.  If halved, you get to play the worst 18th hole in golf.  Repeat if necessary.

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