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John Mayhugh

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Capilano in pictures New
« on: January 25, 2009, 06:58:31 PM »
In 2008, I was fortunate to be able to play Capilano - my first Stanley Thompson course - with fellow GCAers Bob Jenkins & Sean Leary.  Capilano is the type of place that I would never have heard of without GCA.  In fact, the course isn't even mentioned in the latest World Atlas of Golf.  Yet I knew that I was in for a treat by reading these word's from Ran's profile:

"There is actually one architect who designed four courses that the authors’ would put among the world’s most twenty or so scenic courses.  From Cape Breton Highlands in Nova Scotia to Jasper Park and Banff Springs in Alberta, Stanley Thompson was very fortunate to have had so many first rate sites. And he was equally blessed at Capilano as much as any of these other postcard perfect places. In fact, he wrote to the club saying Capilano “may prove to be the best endeavor on this continent.” "

Capilano was indeed beautiful.  Those with severe tree aversion might do well to avoid looking any further.  Be assured, though, that there is far more room on the course than it might appear from my photos.

The routing at Capilano was amazing.  The first six holes go downhill, but on the way back up you never get the feeling of playing or walking significantly uphill. The clubhouse sits at the highest point on the course.

The round opens with a great scoring opportunity.  The first hole is a par 5 for the members.  It's only 472 yards downhill.  The tee is elevated and a hedge hides the player's view of the cart path below & in front.


The fairway slopes left to right, making the long approach a bit tougher.  The green sits between four bunkers, with the two front right an easy place to end up with a slightly mishit approach.



The second hole is quite a bit tougher.  It's a 400 yd. par 4 framed by trees.  Though you wouldn't know it from this photo from the tee, the fairway is pretty wide.  The bunker on the right side is a little over 200 yards from the tee and serves to steer you more towards the left side.  That's actually where you want to be as the view of the green is better for your approach.


You want to be on the left side of the fairway, so naturally my shot and photo were from the right.  The green is just barely visible, though you can certainly see the large bunker on the left side.


Here's why you wanted to be on the left side of the fairway.  Note the steep drop on the right side of the green.


Long, left, & right are all no good here.  Note the great transition from the fairway to the green.  Being a little short with the approach is good here.


The third hole is another short par 5, around 460 yards.  The tee shot is uphill slightly and blind.  The doglegs right, but not sharply.  


The fairway bunker on the right is about 235 off the tee and is right on the inside corner of the dogleg.  


More holes to follow.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2010, 11:57:29 AM by John Mayhugh »

Jordan Wall

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2009, 07:31:23 PM »
John,

Wonderful pictures.

Where are the conversation bubbles for Mr. Leary??
 ;D

Cheers,
Jordan

Bill_McBride

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #2 on: January 25, 2009, 08:48:37 PM »
I loved Capilano the one time I played there in fall 2004.  The climb back up from #6 is relatively gentle, but the hike up #9 (long par 3) is straight up, and the tenth hole (short par 5) is pretty much directly up toward the clubhouse.

But #7 and #8, there you are tacking back and forth in very nice fashion and don't even really know you have probably gained 60 feet of the climb back up to the top.

That's a golf course and a club (clubhouse + the members my friend and I met) where you could be happy as a member forever.

Sean Leary

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #3 on: January 25, 2009, 09:29:24 PM »
John,

Wonderful pictures.

Where are the conversation bubbles for Mr. Leary??
 ;D

Cheers,
Jordan

JW,

I couldn't get a word in all day as they kept talking about how much better it was to play with me having spent the previous couple of days with you. Thanks again for bailing so I could play on Mayhugh's 2008 World tour..

PS. They said they didn't think it was possible that you could ever beat me straight up.

Matt Bosela

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #4 on: January 25, 2009, 09:31:51 PM »
Awesome stuff.  Looking forward to seeing more.

I'm heading to Victoria on business later this year and I'm strongly considering heading into the Vancouver area at some point to play Capilano while I'm in BC.  I'm likely crazy if I don't make the attempt...

Sean Leary

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #5 on: January 25, 2009, 09:34:24 PM »
Capilano is truly one of the best places in the world to play golf.  A gem that should not be missed. Like Bill, I fell in love with the place. One of the better experiences I have encountered in golf.

John Mayhugh

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2009, 10:22:30 PM »
John,

Wonderful pictures.

Where are the conversation bubbles for Mr. Leary??
 ;D

Cheers,
Jordan

It really got old having Sean ask "what do you think Jordan would hit here?" on practically every shot.   :D

David Stamm

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2009, 11:37:14 PM »
Thanks for posting these bud! Keep 'em coming!
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Jordan Wall

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #8 on: January 26, 2009, 01:31:02 AM »
John,

Wonderful pictures.

Where are the conversation bubbles for Mr. Leary??
 ;D

Cheers,
Jordan

JW,

I couldn't get a word in all day as they kept talking about how much better it was to play with me having spent the previous couple of days with you. Thanks again for bailing so I could play on Mayhugh's 2008 World tour..

PS. They said they didn't think it was possible that you could ever beat me straight up.

Sean,

Everyone needs a special friend that always tells them what they want to hear.

On the other hand, I dont doubt for a second you'd lay a fist on me during a round.

Hope all is well.

Cheers,
Jordan

Sean_A

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #9 on: January 26, 2009, 03:10:58 AM »
John

I have been wanting to see pix of Capilano for a long time and it is quite a shock to see those horrible, horrible trees.  Is the course surrounded by a ghetto?  What is the story?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Sean Leary

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #10 on: January 26, 2009, 09:40:52 AM »
Sean,

The course was carved out of a forest on a side of a mountain. Pretty sure it is one of most expensive neighborhoods in all of Canada.

Bill_McBride

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #11 on: January 26, 2009, 11:58:30 AM »
Sean,

The course was carved out of a forest on a side of a mountain. Pretty sure it is one of most expensive neighborhoods in all of Canada.

The corridors are quite wide - 100 yards in most cases?  The size of the trees makes it look narrower than it is.  The holes up behind the clubhouse are almost in a meadow-like setting.  I never felt claustrophobic anywhere on the course.

Sean_A

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #12 on: January 26, 2009, 12:18:46 PM »
Sean & Bill

So let me get this straight.  You like the rows trees which to a large degree look the same type and size?  They remind me of the dreaded, dare I say it, no I can't.  Is the whole course treed in this manner?  If not a ghetto, is there anything else the club may be trying to hide?  Perhaps a missile site?

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Robert Thompson

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #13 on: January 26, 2009, 12:32:22 PM »
Sean: That's pretty much how the course has been for its history. It was part of a development in the early 1930s, and I pulled out my club history which contains photos from 1933 that confirm it was always pretty much like that. I've played the course a handful of times and would contend that there are very few places where the trees were problematic. This one is pretty wide....
Terrorizing Toronto Since 1997

Read me at Canadiangolfer.com

Bill_McBride

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #14 on: January 26, 2009, 12:40:59 PM »
Large coniferous trees are pretty much a given in the Pacific Northwest, which includes Vancouver.  I suspect this was a mature forest when Thompson had the playing corridors cleared, and he knew what he was doing as the corridors never seemed tight at all.

Sean_A

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #15 on: January 26, 2009, 12:51:44 PM »
Bill

You didn't answer the question! 

It sounds like you folks are saying there is nothing which can be done about the mono stands of trees. If this is the case, more is the pity.  At least in the pix and imo, they really detract from the aesthetics of the course.  I reckon the place would have to be a cracker for folks to overlook this glaring issue - which let me make it clear, has nothing to do with the playability of the course.   


Ciao

Sean
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Bill_McBride

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2009, 01:00:15 PM »
Bill

You didn't answer the question! 

It sounds like you folks are saying there is nothing which can be done about the mono stands of trees. If this is the case, more is the pity.  At least in the pix and imo, they really detract from the aesthetics of the course.  I reckon the place would have to be a cracker for folks to overlook this glaring issue - which let me make it clear, has nothing to do with the playability of the course.   


Ciao

Sean

Which question?  Did I like the trees?  The trees were fine, this is one of the best courses I've ever played.  Would it have been better without the trees?  Maybe so but let me repeat: the trees did not interfere with play.  The corridors are as wide as the 12th fairway at St Andrews.  The trees are a border, and you missed a shot pretty badly if you got into them.  Even I, who routinely carry a saw in my bag, did not have to worry about the trees.

Any more questions?

John Mayhugh

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2009, 01:46:37 PM »
Regrettably, I haven't studied Thompson nearly enough.  But from what I've read, he didn't mind framing holes with trees.  I think that the course might look and play a little better with some trees removed between parallel fairways, but the course doesn't feel claustrophobic at all.  As to Bill's comment about needing to miss a shot pretty badly to be in the trees, he's right.  That's not to say I didn't miss any shots badly, though.   ;D

Here's an aerial with the first three holes numbered.  I think fewer trees between 2 & 3 would be nice and bring the shared fairway bunkers into play a little more. 


I think tall trees are just part of playing in the Pacific NW.  I didn't mind them at all.  Will post holes 4-6 sometime tonight.

Sean Leary

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #18 on: January 26, 2009, 02:57:24 PM »
Those trees saved my hide on the first three holes as I snaphhooked all three and the trees saved them from going OB.

I say keep em.. :)

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #19 on: January 26, 2009, 05:35:55 PM »
Sean brings up a good point.

As RT points out, Capilano has always been a treed course. While some stunning views have been closed through tree growth/additions over the years, most holes are plenty wide.

Its the agronomic challenges presented by Capilano's forest that are an issue. Those big, tall, thick trees create stagnate air and cast A LOT of shade on the course. Capilano's a wet place too. The course receives an extraordinary amount of precip. Lack of sunlight keeps the course too wet, particularly in the rainy season.

A logical argument for tree removal at Capilano centres on agronomy more than aesthetics and course architecture.   
jeffmingay.com

Sean_A

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #20 on: January 26, 2009, 05:41:55 PM »
Sean brings up a good point.

As RT points out, Capilano has always been a treed course. While some stunning views have been closed through tree growth/additions over the years, most holes are plenty wide.

Its the agronomic challenges presented by Capilano's forest that are an issue. Those big, tall, thick trees create stagnate air and cast A LOT of shade on the course. Capilano's a wet place too. The course receives an extraordinary amount of precip. Lack of sunlight keeps the course too wet, particularly in the rainy season.

A logical argument for tree removal at Capilano centres on agronomy more than aesthetics and course architecture.   

Jeff

The trees and light problems (especially in winter) was going to be my step in the debate.  However, I can't get past the idea that folks might admire those trees - I find them dreadfully depressing just in the pix - never mind in person.  It just goes to show that folks can overlook this sort of stuff if they like the course enough.

Ciao 
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Jeff_Mingay

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #21 on: January 26, 2009, 05:50:44 PM »
Sean,

Trust me. If I owned Capilano, A LOT of trees would come down. But the reality is, TOO MANY clubs members are resistive to the idea. This is why I bring up agronomy. Golf, as you know, is intended to be played on highly manicured turf. It's IMPOSSIBLE to cultivate highly manicured turf amongst MASSIVE evergreen trees. And yet, science is still trumped by emotion!

It continues to amaze me how so many talented golf course superintendents, like Zubek for example, overcome this impossibility.
jeffmingay.com

John Mayhugh

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #22 on: January 26, 2009, 05:56:13 PM »
The fourth hole is a 160 yard par 3.  The tee shot plays just slightly uphill to a two tiered green.  This was the spot of our first coyote spotting of the day, with a family of them hanging out in the trees just short of the pond.  There was some sort of siren going off while we were on the hole and it was pretty amusing listening to them.  You can see one of the coyotes on the cart path in the second photo.




Here's the green from the left side.  The tee beside the green is actually for the 13th (I think), not the fifth hole. 


The fifth hole is 517 yards and the third par 5 in the first five holes.  The water is pretty easy to carry.  It's about 200 yards to reach the left side of the fairway, 220 to the right side.  The bunker on the left is about 250 out and right of it is a pretty good aiming point.  The fairway is around 35 yards wide to the right of bunker and narrows the farther you go past it.


Plenty to think about on the second shot.  The bunker on the right beside the green actually begins about 30 yards in front of the green and narrows the landing area for the approach.  Good idea to be short of it if you cannot reach the green with your second shot. 


This photo is from the left rough.  Note that the bunker on the right side ends just short of the green and how the fairway tends to feed balls towards the green.  This green was one of the most contoured on the course. 


The sixth hole is 400 yards and plays shorter due to being about 90 feet downhill.  That's downtown Vancouver in the distance.


For the approach, you can be well short of the green and let the fairway help feed the ball in.  As you have gone down the hill, Vancouver is now out of view.
 

A huge bunker complex left makes an approach from the right feel far more comfortable.


Here's the view from behind the green.  Note the cant of the green from left to right.  Also, as Bob Jenkins described in another post: "there is a depression in the fairway about 15 feet wide and maybe two feet deep at the center. A ball hit short of the depression will get a forward bounce off the downhill fairway which will go through the depression and onto the front of the green. A ball that lands at the depression will not get onto the green. The green tends to feed well hit balls to the back of the green, even if they land on the front, so with any kind of forward pin, the best way to get close is to hit it short of the depression and let it bounce up."  Cool hole.


Charlie Goerges

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #23 on: January 26, 2009, 06:19:52 PM »
Those are some gorgeous trees. Playing through the boreal forest must be a lovely experience. The level of quiet brought about by coniferous trees of that size and number would not be unlike that which one experiences in a mid-winter snowfall. Footsteps are muffled, conversations do not escape the immediate environ, breezes create a light, shimmery swish. Truly relaxing.

Regarding views, while courses with long vistas might approximate the grand feeling of a cathedral, playing a course such as Capilano would seem to evoke the more personal feeling of an ancient familial chapel. It's high yet narrow nave coaxing one into closer quarters with one's peers and encouraging the contemplation of that for which life is worth living.
Severally on the occasion of everything that thou doest, pause and ask thyself, if death is a dreadful thing because it deprives thee of this. - Marcus Aurelius

Bill_McBride

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Re: Capilano in pictures
« Reply #24 on: January 26, 2009, 06:45:25 PM »
Those are some gorgeous trees. Playing through the boreal forest must be a lovely experience. The level of quiet brought about by coniferous trees of that size and number would not be unlike that which one experiences in a mid-winter snowfall. Footsteps are muffled, conversations do not escape the immediate environ, breezes create a light, shimmery swish. Truly relaxing.

Regarding views, while courses with long vistas might approximate the grand feeling of a cathedral, playing a course such as Capilano would seem to evoke the more personal feeling of an ancient familial chapel. It's high yet narrow nave coaxing one into closer quarters with one's peers and encouraging the contemplation of that for which life is worth living.

....while still having adequately wide playing corridors!

You get it.  Capilano is a serene playing experience.

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