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Paul Carey

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This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« on: January 11, 2009, 06:36:49 PM »
http://www.golf.com/golf/tours_news/article/0,28136,1870963,00.html?cid=feed-tours_news-20090111-1870963

This would be a shame.  It is so much fun to watch this tournament at Kapalua.  Whether those guys are shooting 20 under or 8 under the course always wins in my opinion.

The players want to stay:

"If the players had a vote, speculation probably wouldn't last long.

The best part of winning the Honda Classic for Ernie Els was a return trip to Kapalua, where he set the tournament record (31 under) in 2003 during a week of pristine conditions. Even though his putter has been a problem this week, it's tough for Els to say it has been a bad week. He spent one morning in the ocean with his son, Ben, teaching him to body surf.

Rory Sabbatini was here this week, even though he didn't qualify. He loves the place so much he comes to Kapalua on vacation.

"We all want it to stay here," Davis Love III said. "There's a few players that don't like coming here, but for the most part, this is a great place for us to come. I love coming here and I would hate to see it leave."

The Plantation course can be an acquired taste - with so much elevation, 400-yard drives can be the norm - but it offers wide fairways that can be ideal for players trying to knock winter rust off their game.

"This is a perfect place to start," Geoff Ogilvy said. "It's quite easy to hit a lot of fairways."

Ogilvy is among those who took up joint membership on the European Tour this year, and one reason was a variety of courses that he believes the U.S. tour lacks. He finds it odd that a move from Kapalua is being discussed.

"After Florida, you probably play the same golf course 20 times in a row," Ogilvy said. "But to play such an extremely different setup, it's a cool place to start."

David Stamm

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #1 on: January 11, 2009, 11:18:16 PM »

 
"After Florida, you probably play the same golf course 20 times in a row," Ogilvy said. "But to play such an extremely different setup, it's a cool place to start."



I'm a big Ogilvy fan, and I understand what he's trying to say, but 20 all the same after the Florida swing? What about Harbour Town? Colonial? Muirfield Village? If anything, it would seem the Florida courses are the same.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

Will MacEwen

Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #2 on: January 11, 2009, 11:44:55 PM »

 
"After Florida, you probably play the same golf course 20 times in a row," Ogilvy said. "But to play such an extremely different setup, it's a cool place to start."



I'm a big Ogilvy fan, and I understand what he's trying to say, but 20 all the same after the Florida swing? What about Harbour Town? Colonial? Muirfield Village? If anything, it would seem the Florida courses are the same.

I would think that the recent tour setups have homogenized the courses to a certain extent - tight fairways, thickish rough, tucked pins.  There are still differences of course, but I think these guys have to play the same style more weeks than not.

PCCraig

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #3 on: January 12, 2009, 08:46:24 AM »
If it leaves Kapalua...where would it go?
H.P.S.

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #4 on: January 12, 2009, 08:52:56 AM »
How about the Fazio course at nearby Mauka? It was announced in 2006 and construction was to start in 2007. Is this project on hold?

Kapalua Mauka
Kapalua Mauka combines a 1000-acre residential community of luxury home sites, villas and condominiums with stunning accommodations, extensive open space and trails and more, including:

Mauka Golf Course & Clubhouse: Kapalua Resort's first members-only club, designed by Tom Fazio


http://www.kapalua.com/real_estate/new_developments.php
"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Tom Dunne

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2009, 09:21:35 AM »
Steve,

Last I heard (mid-October), Mauka was on hold. This course would be on the footprint of the Village course at Kapalua Resort.

Anyway, leaving Kapalua Plantation would be a crime. Perish the thought!

JESII

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2009, 09:32:31 AM »
My instinct is that climate and weather variables are where Ogilvy will find the most "variety" in this quest, and then he'll realize that seeking out the extreme weather (golf extreme anyway...) that the European Tour plays through is overrated.

After all, the "joint member" status for a guy like Ogilvy is a bit of a throw isn't it...he'll be credited on both Tours with about 8 events just for playing the majors and the World events, pick another handful from each tour on which he likes the venue and he's got his minimum...

PCCraig

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #7 on: January 12, 2009, 10:03:04 AM »
Does the Mercedes have to stay in HI?
H.P.S.

George Pazin

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #8 on: January 12, 2009, 10:42:52 AM »
Does the Mercedes have to stay in HI?

I think it used to be a season ending event at La Costa (? the place in Cali where they used to hold the Match Play event).

If they were to move, I can only speculate it's because they don't like that Tiger and Phil won't make the long trip (gotta be tough flying that far in a luxury private jet), so I don't see it moving elsewhere in Hawaii. Also, it's possible the primetime ratings are not good enough to justify it.

As for Ogilvy's comment that they play the same course 20 times, good Lord, the man is allowed a little hyperbole to make a point. In trying to read his thoughts, I don't believe he is seeking extreme weather, I believe he is seeking something other than aerial drop and stop golf, particularly when the recovery shots are always lob wedges out of thick rough (it used to be someone's signature line, I think Garland's).

One has to admit, it seems as though most of the normal Tour courses (not the majors, not The Players, and not maybe 2 other events), the strategic thinking is generally along the lines of "What's my yardage?".
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Kyle Harris

Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2009, 10:43:57 AM »
If it didn't stay in Hawaii, don't you think a lot of the non Tiger/Phil high calibre players would then skip the Sony?

Matthew Rose

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2009, 11:36:10 AM »
Steve,

Last I heard (mid-October), Mauka was on hold. This course would be on the footprint of the Village course at Kapalua Resort.

Anyway, leaving Kapalua Plantation would be a crime. Perish the thought!

Does this mean the Village course is kaput?

Will anyone miss it?



American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Tom Dunne

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #11 on: January 12, 2009, 01:05:44 PM »
Matt Rose,

Yes, the Village course will cease to exist. Will people miss it? I dunno. I played it once and thought it was so-so. It's on a pretty nice piece of land that I think could yield something better. Whether the Mauka will do that is an open question. The course was originally designed to be a private, real estate-driven play, but we'll see if that is still the case when the project gets back on track.

John Moore II

Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 01:31:00 PM »
If it didn't stay in Hawaii, don't you think a lot of the non Tiger/Phil high calibre players would then skip the Sony?

The majority of the better players skip the Sony anyway. I would say (no facts to back this up BTW) that generally not more than 1/2 of the Mercedes field plays in the Sony. Just a thought.

But I agree, the Mercedes should stay in Hawaii. It has a get date, and I think, one of the best venues on tour. Great design, great scenery, just an all around great place.

Jerry Kluger

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 01:38:31 PM »
It is interesting that they play it at a par 73 - I wonder what the thinking is?

K. Krahenbuhl

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Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 01:45:05 PM »
Steve,

Last I heard (mid-October), Mauka was on hold. This course would be on the footprint of the Village course at Kapalua Resort.

Anyway, leaving Kapalua Plantation would be a crime. Perish the thought!

Does this mean the Village course is kaput?

Will anyone miss it?

The village course is gone.  It is currently used for trails and as an alternative sporting area with ziplines. climbing, etc.

I believe that the new private course (which is on hold) will be further up the hill above the Plantation course if it is built.

John Moore II

Re: This would be a shame.....Mercedes to move (maybe)
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2009, 01:54:00 PM »
It is interesting that they play it at a par 73 - I wonder what the thinking is?

Probably given the wind changes and such, its just better to keep it as designed. If they changed one of the par 5's into a long par 4, you'd have to take into consideration the wind conditions each day to make it fair. I mean, if such a hole were playing sharply into the wind one day, it may be barely playable as a par 4 even from the most forward tees. Plus, the tour and tournament organizers tend to be less inclined to change the par of courses than the USGA and PGA of America.

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