[Bob_Huntley]

Will we look back fifty years from now and extoll the virues of Kingsbarns, Sand Hills, Bandon Dunes, Pacific Dunes and Friars Head and others as the ne lus ultra of golf course design?

Let the vitriol drip.

Bob

[John Kirk]

I had to look up "ne lus ultra".  Should it be plus?

ne plus ul·tra  (n pls ltr, n pls lträ)
n.
1. The highest point, as of excellence or achievement; the ultimate.
2. The most profound degree, as of a condition or quality.

As you know, most of my favorite courses have been built in the last fifteen years.  We'll see how they compare when the beautiful planted stands of fescue and bent give way to the dominant native grasses.

The grass surfaces makes a huge difference.  I need to see a few more of the best classic courses, because I think the moderns blow the classics away, in virtually all aspects of analysis.

[Kyle Harris]

I had to look up "ne lus ultra".  Should it be plus?

ne plus ul·tra  (n pls ltr, n pls lträ)
n.
1. The highest point, as of excellence or achievement; the ultimate.
2. The most profound degree, as of a condition or quality.

As you know, most of my favorite courses have been built in the last fifteen years.  We'll see how they compare when the beautiful planted stands of fescue and bent give way to the dominant native grasses.

The grass surfaces makes a huge difference.  I need to see a few more of the best classic courses, because I think the moderns blow the classics away, in virtually all aspects of analysis.

Which have you seen?

[David_Tepper]

Bob -

I think you have raised an important and valid point, especially in light of the recent nonsensical (in my opinion) "Dark Age of Golf" thread that ran here earlier in the week.

There have been many, many wonderful golf courses built in many parts of the world over the past 5-15 years. Not all of them have been at the high-end of the market either (think Rustic Canyon & Wild Horse ).  The golf media seems to have recognized what is going on and has made some modest attempt to raise the consciousness of the general golf public regarding golf course architecture and design.   

I do think this period will be very well regarded decades in the future. We might as well enjoy it right now!

DT

[Andy Troeger]

I would have to agree as well, and that's without even having played all the major players. The quantity of quality modern designs is very impressive. I'm admittedly not the best one to compare, I've played many more top modern designs than classic ones. Its still hard to beat CPC, Pebble, and Crystal Downs though.

[John Kirk]

Kyle,

Without naming names, I've seen about half of the classic courses listed in Golf Magazine's top 30 in the U.S.  There are some major omissions, and I'll try to see them if the opportunity presents itself.

I believe it's getting to the point where the tenth best modern course, say in the last twenty years, is equal in quality to the tenth best Golden Age course.  The argument begins from there, though I'm not prepared to argue it out tonight.

How's it going?  Back in Florida yet?

JK

[BCrosby]

Bob -

There are undoubtedly courses built in the last decade that are among les ne plus ultra. You and I might quibble about the list of courses, but there is a list.

But until some of the courses of that generation host majors, they will not be widely perceived as being among les ne plus ultra. Even if on purely architectural terms they deserve inclusion.

Unfortunately I don't see many of them joining major rotas any time soon. That's a shame.  

Bob  





  

[Tom_Doak]

Bob Crosby:

Pine Valley and Cypress Point are not on the "major" rota either.  And most of the classic courses are WAY too short.

[BCrosby]

Tom D -

I thought of those courses. That's why I said "some" above.

Virtually all the other great courses of their era have hosted majors at one time or another. Which, as a matter of perception, validates the great courses of that era as a notch above equally great moderns.

That's a raw deal, but I don't see moderns breaking into the major rota any time in the next couple of decades.

Bob

[John Kirk]

Chambers Bay and Whistling Straits are getting their chance.  I think Sebonack shouldn't be ruled out.

Torrey Pines is middle aged; not everybody likes it, but it worked pretty well as a major venue, with a mixed leaderboard of top notch short and long hitters.

I see a transition to longer courses with less severe rough and greenside difficulties.  Of course, that all goes out the door at Merion, which will be very interesting.  You gotta love variety.

[Bob_Huntley]

I had to look up "ne lus ultra".  Should it be plus?

ne plus ul·tra  (n pls ltr, n pls lträ)
n.
1. The highest point, as of excellence or achievement; the ultimate.
2. The most profound degree, as of a condition or quality.

As you know, most of my favorite courses have been built in the last fifteen years.  We'll see how they compare when the beautiful planted stands of fescue and bent give way to the dominant native grasses.

The grass surfaces makes a huge difference.  I need to see a few more of the best classic courses, because I think the moderns blow the classics away, in virtually all aspects of analysis.

John,

Forgive me, yes it should be "plus."


Bob

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Bob I think these course shall be held as the gems of a period. Much as I hold Firestone and Spyglass in their eras. Yet these will be looked at much more favorably in a broader view of the last 50 years.

[Steve Lang]

  
I assume in 50 years gca.com'ers will be playing and discussing the current subject courses in virtual reality programs, for gca_credits mind you..

i doubt i'll be walking many courses as a 106 year old, but would certainly enjoy the visuals, if I could find my glasses..

I simply don't understand why a course has to have been blessed/cursed with hosting a USGA or PGA "major" tournament before it is accepted as a top course.. and why a limited set of courses are continually bemoaned for having had their best days past.. timewarp gca logistics like political correctness

[Mike Hendren]

Bob,

I really like the concept of Platinum Age as it connotes flash and pretense.  On the other hand gold still carries the connotation of the timeless and dependable standard by which everything else is measured. 

I am admittedly biased, but as your examples suggest,  in my opinion the Golden Age can only be eclipsed by site selection, not by design.

Hope you are well.

Mike

[Bob_Huntley]

Bob -

There are undoubtedly courses built in the last decade that are among les ne plus ultra. You and I might quibble about the list of courses, but there is a list.

But until some of the courses of that generation host majors, they will not be widely perceived as being among les ne plus ultra. Even if on purely architectural terms they deserve inclusion.

Unfortunately I don't see many of them joining major rotas any time soon. That's a shame.  

Bob


Bob,


Has LACC hosted a Major?

Bob  





  

[Carl Rogers]

This premise of this thread may well be correct in North America.
There is probably a lot of terrific property on the Black Sea and other areas of the world ... Brazil??  But is there a demand for Golf there?  If great courses were built let's say in India, would enough people hear about it or play them to recognize it?

I would like to see the day when many of you on this site start to tear up do over a lot of over priced pieces of non-sense.  Raising the standard of the average course is a worthy goal .. yes the golf consumer will have to pay for it.

[Patrick_Mucci]

Bob,

I think you have to examine the entire body of work during the period referenced, and not just the cream of the crop, when you define or categorize the period.

[Gary Slatter]

Might this age not be the Titanium Age of Design ?

We planted "native grasses" when we renovated our Torrance this year.  It will be interesting to see the difference.

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