[Philippe Binette]

Jason Gore continued an odd trend. He became the sixth player in the last seven years to win the Total Driving crown and yet not finish among the Top 125. Only Charles Warren in 2007 avoided that fate during that span of time.

total driving is distance + accuracy...

not only no win, but not keeping his card

[Jeff_Brauer]

Drive for show......

[Philippe Binette]

The also said the longest drive on tour was 439 yards by Tim Petrovic... must have it a sprinkler head...

Who was the best on par 3s this year; good old Corey Pavin 11 under for the year

[Jim Nugent]

Philippe, that's not the first time Corey has led the field at the par 3's.  Did so at least once a few years ago.  Suggests to me that his driving really holds him back from greater success. 

[Jeff_Mingay]

A 439-yard tee shot, on Tour?!

Where'd this happen, Philippe? Off the top of my head, I'd guess Kapalua... but I don't think that guy would have been in the field of 2007 winners, there?

[Jeff_Brauer]

In 2007 there were 16 drives over 400.  In 2008 I think it was up to ......19.

I think average driving distance and the number of pros over 300 Average both went down a bit this year, but its been a few days since I looked at them.  There aren't more than 20 guys averaging 300 yards.

I still wonder how far these guys typically hit it.  Some say that they use 3 wood on many of the two hole samples and that the shotlink data shows greater distances overall.  I know we have all seen Tiger and Phil, Vigay and Ernie, etc. drive 350 based on TV stats.  I think we tend to think that everyone does that.

Does anybody really know how far these guys typically hit it.

[J_McKenzie]

It may not be an average, but a common carry number I hear from tour guys is 300 yards.  Guys like Bubba Watson or J.B Holmes are much longer than that- as much as 340 depending on conditions. 

[JLahrman]

Unless it's been altered, the 'Total Driving' statistic isn't really any sort of statistic at all.  It just takes the players distance rank and their accuracy rank and adds them together.  There isn't any validity to that.  I'm not sure how to improve the statistic, but multiplying the actual distance figure by the accuracy percentage might be a start.

[TX Golf]

The 16th at Firestone also sees some pretty crazy long drives.

A lot of the long drives at Kapalua actually come on a par 4. I don't remember which hole, but the players can hit it about 300 and have the ball roll another hundred down towards the green.

[Bill_McBride]

Pensacola's Joe Durant was tops in greens in regulation and is going to tour school.

It's all about the putting.  Which might explain why that's most of what you see on TV. 

[Anthony Gray]

Pensacola's Joe Durant was tops in greens in regulation and is going to tour school.

It's all about the putting.  Which might explain why that's most of what you see on TV. 

  Sergio is 2nd in the world now.

[Ken Moum]

Pensacola's Joe Durant was tops in greens in regulation and is going to tour school.

It's all about the putting.  Which might explain why that's most of what you see on TV. 

Putts per round and putts per GIR are the only two stats they keep, and neither of them are remotely predictive of success on Tour.

Bob Tway and Corey Pavin topped the two lists in 2008 (Tway was fifth and first, while Pavin was first and tenth)

I'd make a small wager that if someone looked at Pelz's "average proximity to the hole on shots inside 100 yards," it would be just as reliable a predictor of success as it was 20+ years ago when he first stumbled on it.

FWIW, prior to that accidental discovery, DP was not interested in the short game at all.

He discovered it while trying to correlate performance to results, and only looked at the short shots after finding that full shot performance and putting excellence were not predictive of success on Tour.

Ken

[Anthony Gray]

  I guess after looking at all the different stats the main predictor of sucess is................................scoreing.

[JESII]

I think architecture can play into this however...

Joe Durant was first in GIR which would imply he is the best ballstriker and his proximity to the hole would be great (I don't have the ShotLink data which may confirm this) but he was 196th in Putts Per GIR which would imply he was actually pretty far away from the hole when he started putting.

Could the corner hole locations scare him into playing to the middle of every green?

[Ken Moum]

  I guess after looking at all the different stats the main predictor of sucess is................................scoreing.

Of the ones they keep on Tour.....

But for someone who is making a serious attempt to figure out if there's a common trait among those who regularly appear at the top, average proximity for shots inside 100 yards is the only one that shows any kind of predictive characteristics.

When Pelz first ran the numbers in the 80s, he says that the percentage of error (distance from the hole/length of the shot) showed a nearly one-to-one correlation to position on the money list.

I bet it still does.

K

[Brian_Ewen]

A 439-yard tee shot, on Tour?!

Where'd this happen, Philippe? Off the top of my head, I'd guess Kapalua... but I don't think that guy would have been in the field of 2007 winners, there?

http://www.pgatour.com/2008/r/11/11/longest_drives/index.html

[Mike Benham]

  I guess after looking at all the different stats the main predictor of sucess is................................scoreing.

We also can assume it is not spelling ...

[Tom_Doak]

Jeff Brauer:

I used to take the driving stats with a grain of salt, until I spent a day up close with those four young men down in New Zealand.  They all averaged well over 300 yards anytime they pulled out the driver, although they did have a firm surface and were getting 40-50 yards of rollout on those last holes when the longest drives were 350-360.

I suspect the driving distance totals on Tour are misleadingly low because on a few courses per year their balls are plugging on landing due to wet conditions, and because when they drive in the rough they don't get much roll.

[Anthony Gray]

  I guess after looking at all the different stats the main predictor of sucess is................................scoreing.

  Mike,

  Mie speling is horible.

   Anthony

[mike_beene]

Would you think that under fairly normal conditions the longer hitters carry about 300,the mid hitters around 280 and some like Furyk,Funk carry around 260?

[Tim Gavrich]

True, but I'd call Sergio an example of a streaky putter, whereas guys like Joe Durant are pretty consistently below-average putters.  You need look no further for evidence than Sergio's excellent record in the Ryder Cup (save for '08).  For all the big-time putts he's made in big situations, I'd say he's more a streaky putter than a bad putter.  Mark Calcavecchia is another great example of a streaky putter.  When he's on, he can light it up.  But when he's off, he really struggles.  Same is typically true of Sergio.

  Sergio is 2nd in the world now.

[Mike_Clayton]

Tom.

Interesting you say that.

I played at Kingston Heath this week with Geoff Ogilvy.
As we always do we played with wooden woods and he drives it like Norman did and that is a rare skill - at least it was in Greg's day.
Downwind a bit he still hit a wedge into the 6th and the 1st in the opposite direction was a good drive and a five iron.

I found it hard to believe that he could not drive like that and not compete on tour - because as he admitted he is straighter with the wood.

His comment was that it is fine at Kingson Heath where he can get some decent run but when its all through the air in America the loss of the carry would hurt him.
Its a pity because its so much more fun with woods for good players because the misses (very few) are not nearly as good but the great drives are so much more impressive - because it takes real skill to drive the ball really properly with a wood.

[john_stiles]

Tim,

Sergio won the Vardon trophy this year.  That was a nice streak !
If a few more putts fall,  it would have been even better. 

[Bill_McBride]

I think architecture can play into this however...

Joe Durant was first in GIR which would imply he is the best ballstriker and his proximity to the hole would be great (I don't have the ShotLink data which may confirm this) but he was 196th in Putts Per GIR which would imply he was actually pretty far away from the hole when he started putting.

Could the corner hole locations scare him into playing to the middle of every green?

Joe will admit that he is just a terrible putter.  I also agree he is pretty much not terribly aggressive.  It has worked until this year when he slipped below 125.

[Rob Rigg]

Not to start the technology debate again but pro golf is so bloody boring 95% of the time because the ball is crushed and in the fairway on almost every hole (with the majors as potential exceptions).

It was so much more entertaining with persimmons because you got to see the recovery skills that make the top pros so amazing. The short game was also much more important. Based on Pelz's research, the variability of mid-iron accuracy versus 9 irons/wedges meant that players were off the green more often.

Guys like Pavin and Kite had a much greater chance of winning.

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