[Matt_Ward]

Be curious to see how these two (2) courses stack up against each other.

I've played the Irish-based layout and ONLY seen Kauri Cliffs from the deep left seats -- i.e. called my TV set.

Much of the negative vibe against Old Head is to paraphrase the Texas expression, "It's all hat and not cattle." I've opined previously that Old Head does have one-third of its course featuring all-star holes of world class quality. Conversely, one third of the course is so-so with a number of above average holes and one-third is simply medicore stuff that belies the gorgeous site it possesses.

Kauri Cliffs looks like it was designed with just the "looks" and little real substance. From my distant seat -- Kauri Cliffs is a superb postcard course but failed noticeably on the elements of real design detail when held against Cape Kidnappers. Of course, many courses would fail to hold a candle to CK -- but Kauri Cliffs was supposed to be something of real quality -- but I have to wonder, and maybe those who have played both can weigh in -- but I see Old Head being the better of the two. Again, that's just a guess on my part.

Curious to hear what others with a more direct connection have to say.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Matt - you've captured Kauri accurately, even from your armchair!  I thought Kauri reminded me of many Hawaiian courses - the golf is secondary to the views...   JC

[Tom_Doak]

Matt:

If you draw your opinion strictly on the basis of golf holes and nothing else, then Old Head might beat Kauri Cliffs in your comparison.  Old Head has a couple of one-of-a-kind golf holes that Kauri Cliffs doesn't.  (I would love to hear how you arrive at six -- only the fourth and twelfth qualify for me.)  On the other hand, Old Head also has a bunch of awkward details around the greens that Kauri Cliffs doesn't.

If you expand your view to include the VARIETY of golf holes and the variety of scenery, then Kauri Cliffs would probably get the nod from many golfers.

[Jerry Kluger]

Matt: 

I have not played either course but I think Tom's statement on TV at the Kiwi was directly on point - if you are building a resort course you need to accommodate a wide variety of players which includes some who play very infrequently.  I would have to imagine that would make it very difficult to challenge the serious golfer while making the necessary accommodations.  The best I have seen in that regard are the Plantation Course at Kapalua and the Ocean Course at Kiawah, but it also results in some very long rounds as the course can be too difficult for the lesser players.

[Scott Macpherson]

I haven't played OH yet but have looked at it, but I played KC for the second time in March and discovered more subtlety in the holes than I did the first time. So if the best courses grow on you the more times you play them, then I must give a little nod to Kauri Cliffs.

Even the uphill finishing hole at KC felt better!! Indeed, while CK is better than KC, perhaps the 18th at KC is better hole than the 18th at CK. (I wish this green had been up to the left so it was visible from the tee, and off line shots rolled down into the punch bowl. Sorry Tom.  )

scott

[Donal Breasail]

i am amazed TD has only picked out 4 and 12 as the "one of a kind" holes as 8 of the holes are on the cliff edges and to me are all pretty spectacular.I have not played Kauri cliffs but it does look amazing to me.I think the par 3's are all pretty spectactular at OH (with the exception of no.11 which is right in the middle of the headland).I am hoping to get to Kauri cliffs and KP in the New Year to see both places .

attached is the course layout for OH.
http://oldhead.com/golf/tour-the-course/
 

[Aidan Bradley]

#4



#4



#12



#12



#12

[Tom Huckaby]

Great pics as always, Aidan.

#12 OH is where I felt vertigo for one of the few times in my life.  Standing on that tee I wanted to be as far left as I could, for slightly better angle, but I just couldn't do it because the only vision in my head was that of slipping and plummeting to my death.  To that end, one of my playing partners hit a pull hook into the side of the cliff pictured, and the ball stayed up... and he went down and HIT IT!  Damndest, bravest, stupidest thing I have ever seen.

BTW vertigo aside I birdied the golf hole, damn near made eagle.  Still have no clue how I pulled that off given my vertigo feeling didn't stop until after several post-round pints.

Apologies for the diversion.  But Old Head pictures do bring out the stories.  It is one incredible place.

Never been to Kauari Cliffs, didn't see it on TV.  But these too courses do look to be similarly incredible from the pictures of KC I've seen.

TH

[Tom_Doak]

Aidan's last picture shows the thing I dislike about Old Head the most -- those furry mounds between the green and the water.

[Tom Huckaby]

Aidan's last picture shows the thing I dislike about Old Head the most -- those furry mounds between the green and the water.

Oh wow Tom... in general yes that's not the best look, nor does it play the best... but for safety and comfort reasons I am sure as hell glad that "fur" was there on #12.  Absent that a lot of balls would go farther toward the cliff and I'd likely be down a couple friends right now.

TH

[Aidan Bradley]

The par 3's except #11......

#3



#7



#13



#16

[Jason Topp]

Aidan's last picture shows the thing I dislike about Old Head the most -- those furry mounds between the green and the water.

Like these?

[Andrew Summerell]

Matt,

I like your hat & cattle referrence. I haven't played Old Head, but I have played Kauri Cliffs a few times. It does seem the look was far more important than the actual architecture. The 16th at KC was my greatest disappointment.

To add an Australian twist, you could say it a 'quarter flash & three quarters foolish'.

[Matt_Ward]

Jerry:

A few comments on your post ...

Old Head does provide sufficient room off the tee to handle a wide variet of players. If you decide to play the tips Old Head has enough teeth to bit you big time should you err -- there's also the varying wind conditions which be gale like in certain times.

My point was that Old Head seems to have a bit more design detail than what I viewed on TV w Kauri Cliffs -- although I do take very seriously what Tom D added in regards to the putting area of KC versus those at OH.

Tom D:

A few comments to your last post ...

I concur with you on the greens at OH -- they are far from being unique in so many ways although there are few notable exceptions.

In regards to holes that I would consider at the highest of highs -- yes, I'd include the 4th and 12th -- I frankly see the 12th as one of the best par-5 holes on the planet.

The other four holes I would throw into the mix but likely just a shade lower than the aforementioned two holes -- the 2nd, either the 3rd or 7th, the 16th and 17th.

Tom, when you say variety of golf holes -- I cannot commet on KC specifically -- but from what the TV showed of the course I did not see the variety you are speaking about. No doubt that might be because those holes did not get any TV airtime.

In regards to scenery -- I don't Kauri Cliffs looked awesome but Old Head is no slouch in that department either. In my two days at OH I was quite fortunate to have had the same kind of weather experienced at the Kiwi Challenge -- a gentle breeze blew and the sky was blue to the max.

[Ash Towe]

Matt,
It is time you got down to this part of the world.
You have been putting it off for far too long.

[Tom_Doak]

Jason:

The dune in your picture behind #3 green at Pacific Dunes is just that, a dune.

The mounds beside #12 green at Old Head were built, supposedly, to moderate the wind which was killing grass on the green ... but also so that someone chipping from the right of the green (highly likely in the prevailing left-to-right wind) wouldn't go straight off the cliff if they were a fraction too long.  If you can imagine mounding to the left of #18 green at Pebble Beach, you'll get the picture.

Even less appealing than those mounds is the metal fencing erected to the right of the par-3 16th, seen in Aidan's second set of pictures.  What's so great about that hole, Matt -- apart from the water view?

[Kenny Baer]

I can't imagine anyone looking at those pictures and not seeing an awesome golf course; to me OH looks fantastic.

Is it the one of the greatest in the world.....YES.... if you consider a course in the top 300 out of hundreds of thousands one of the greatest; if you consider only courses in the top 30 one of the greatest then it probably isn't.

Looking at photos I would rather play Old Head than KC but I would rather play Cape Kidnappers above all, CK is in my top 10 wishlist, a other worldly setting with the arch to match; that is a boy like mine's dream.

[Kenny Baer]

Question??

What is the deal with the fence?  Why is it there?  It seems a little crazy.

[Matt_Ward]

Ash:

I hear you partner -- the trip is certainly on the agenda for next winter.

Tom D:

You raise a fair point on the mounding by the green at #12 at Old Head -- I'd rather see the hole without it to be more natural. It's possible they could have shaved off the height of the mounds to be less obstrusive than they are now and still save the grass on the green.

If the idea was to preserve golf balls from people who skull shots from the right then that is really a lesser factor from the standpoint of pure architecture and more about keeping that Pro VIX and its $75 rate pr dozen in your pocket rather than 400 feet below the cliffs !

Still, #12 is wonderfully placed and the shots needed to be successful are quite fun and appealing. I like the idea that long players have to think really hard about the possibility in going for such a target with their 2nd if the tee shot is played aggressively off the tee with a hard running draw.

Tom, when I played #16 there was no fencing to the side. I grant it the inclusion of such fencing is hideous. However ...

There's more than just the water view. Try to play the hole with a pin in either the extreme front or the back right. The green is about 45 yards deep and 23 yards wide -- when you have any real wind that can mean anywhere from 4-5 clubs difference when playing the hole. From the tips the holes plays 186 yards -- coming into that green with something greater than a 3-iron is no easy feat if any real wind is blowing.

Tom, you also failed to highlight what happens to any ball that does miss to the right of the target. The pitch is far from automatic and heaven forbid anyone who pulls their tee shot a tad too far to the left.

I'll admit that under the strictest definitions of "all world" holes Old Head likely has only two real serious candidates -- the 4th and 12th. The ones I mentioned additionally are still solid holes and worthy of attention and notice. But I have not heard how many world class holes, if any, Kauri Cliffs has.  You might be able to shed some light on that for me given I've not been to NZ just yet.

When I see people gush about a hole like the 12th at Somerset Hills, which is nothing more than postcard view of a green with H20 in front of it and played from an elevated tee to boot -- I don't see what all the fuss is about that hole --yet many have it on their short list of great par-3's.

[Matt_Ward]

I guess one of the real quandries I have with such courses is the question of just how far does one travel to play places that are primarily noted for their beautiful surroundings -- frankly, I don't think I would return to Old Head because I didn't find anything that was so intoxicatng beyond the few holes I mentioned and the views (which are stunning). In my take at the course I felt I had experienced the sum of what it was.

I get the same feeling (albeit from an armchair QB perspective) of Kauri Cliffs. To travel half way around the globe and play a postcard course with little real depth makes me shake my head and say why?

Clearly, Cape Kidnappers did not present that same feeling -- it was so clear from just what the TV captured of the event.

[Jonathan Cummings]

Anybody out there played all three - Kauri, Old Head and Pinnacle Point??  If so, I'd be curious as to a relative ranking of these three spectacular mountaintop oceanside layouts.  So far for me Old Head beats Kauri hands down from a gca standpoint.  Kauri edges Old Head from a jaw-dropping "wow" standpoint.  Kauri has zero exceptional holes.  Both are worldclass sprinters in the "how much can I gouge the visitor" department.  I'll be able to add Pinnacle Point to the equation in March.  JC

[Matt_Ward]

Jonathan:

You've touched on something people -- especially avid golf nuts -- need to realize. There are pieces of land that have been maxed out because of the POSTCARD dimension -- there is little there THERE in terms of shotmaking and holes that you'd want to play time after time after time.

I don't get any real sense that Kauri Cliffs is beyond what I experienced at Old Head. In fact, given what you said I'd have to say the Irish layout has a bit of an edge. If I did travel to NZ I'd be heading to a few layouts but the time and effort spent to play Kauri Cliffs would for me have to be weighed on time availability.

It would be interesting to get more awareness on Barnbougle Dunes and how Tasmania is making a bigger play for visitors.

[Donal Breasail]

re: the 16th at Old Head .The hole was changed in '06 and as you can see from the "new 16th" the right side is now free from fence and mounding that TD mentioned.

http://oldhead.com/golf/tour-the-course/

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()