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Scott Macpherson

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #25 on: October 31, 2008, 05:43:02 AM »
Joel,

Do you post to the UK?

scott

PCCraig

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #26 on: October 31, 2008, 08:52:45 AM »
I also received my book a couple of days ago.

I have to say so far in reading the course evaluations for some of my favorite Dye courses (TOC, Kohler Courses, Casa De Campo, The Fort, Purdue, etc...) the book is very detailed not only with pitures but extremely well researched. The wealth of courses within the book are great too...even the tony Harbor Ridge is in there! (very underrated.)

Thanks again Joel...great work!
H.P.S.

Ken Fry

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #27 on: November 02, 2008, 10:44:18 AM »
Just received my copy and have had a wonderful time paging through.  As a Hoosier, it's enjoyable to read through the course histories and revisit through pictures the wonderful work the Dyes have done through out Indiana.

Joel did a wonderful job on this book.  A great addition to the library!

Ken

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #28 on: November 02, 2008, 10:47:46 AM »
Joel,

Just got my copy and I really have enjoyed the first peruse.  Sorry I bought in on Amazon!

Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #29 on: November 02, 2008, 11:17:00 AM »
Thanks to all of you who have made kind comments about the new book...it is very gratifying to hear such positive reviews from a group with such high golf IQ's!

Jeff Brauer---I will forgive you for your amazon purchase, as you have been helpful regarding that other book project we were discussing a few months back.

For the rest of you--my prior offer still stands.  Purchase the book at www.vagabondgolfer.com and the benefits are many:

1)  Any type of personalization you'd like
2)  Your choice of custom covers not available in any store--Harbour Town, Ocean Course, Whistling Straits, Blackwolf Run, Pete Dye GC, Honors, Old Marsh, Crooked Stick, and a dozen others.
3) A "thank you" gift that will be a valuable addition to the book itself for purchasing through the author--either sunglasses or a nice golf shirt.  Drop me a line at info@vagabondgolfer.com for all the gory details....

Matt_Ward

Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #30 on: November 02, 2008, 01:32:00 PM »
Joel:

I have the book and my congrats to you for assembling all the info.

Just two quick questions ...

1). How many of Pete's designs have you actually played ? If you have not played them all -- did you walk others?

2). If you had to list a top ten of what Pete has done -- based on any criteria you wish to use -- what would they be along with a short answer of why?

Last comment -- love the pics because you do get views few have seen before -- especially of the lesser known courses Pete and his clan have brought to life.

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #31 on: November 02, 2008, 04:27:44 PM »
Joel:

1). How many of Pete's designs have you actually played ? If you have not played them all -- did you walk others?

2). If you had to list a top ten of what Pete has done -- based on any criteria you wish to use -- what would they be along with a short answer of why?


Matt--Until you asked this question, I never bothered to quantify the entire project in this way.  Here are the answers:

There are 87 courses discussed in the book--75 of Pete's and a dozen extra of his sons, nephews and niece.  (There are nearly 200 courses left OUT of the book also, other than the index.  (To be fully inclusive would have required 2 more years, 300 more pages, 8 more pounds of book, an extra c-note on the cover price, and a hideous divorce on my part!)

Anyway--I digress.  I played or toured (mostly played..few tours) about 85% of the Pete Dye Courses in the book, and two-thirds of the "Next Generation" courses.  This was a fluid project--there were courses I traveled to and played that never made the final cut (Trump National in L.A., which was originally Pete's Ocean Trails, Harbour Trees in Indy, Robber's Row--a Pete re-design on Hilton Head, etc.)  There were also some last-minute additions that Pete himself asked me to include---Va Tech, Urbana CC, to name two, which time constraints as deadline approached precluded my ability to visit. 

As for your second question, I answer that in some detail, or at least attempt to, in my upcoming interview on this site..though I face the unenviable position of coming on the heels of the fantastic 2-part Sandy Tatum interview....Thanks also for the nice comments about the book!

JC Urbina

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #32 on: November 02, 2008, 04:42:55 PM »
Joel
Are you going to Pete's induction ceremony and was this the reason for the book appearing this fall?

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #33 on: November 02, 2008, 05:35:14 PM »
Joel
Are you going to Pete's induction ceremony and was this the reason for the book appearing this fall?


Jim,

I have a pre-arranged and pre-paid book signing at a large tournament the afternoon of the 10th, which will preclude my attendance at the Induction.  One of my regular revenue streams is to meet/greet the participants at golf events, and they get a personalized "takeaway" of a book, which is often more appealing, or at least more unique, then the regular array of shirts, hats, etc.  (In fact--did we once meet in person at the ASGCA meeting on Hilton Head when Clyde Johnston hired me for that very purpose?)

The timing of the book and the WGHOF Induction is pure serendipity..when we got started with this project in mid-2006 there was no way to know Pete's induction was looming.  Great news in the long term for marketing and sales, but it puts a slight damper on my upcoming Launch party in Savannah on the 14th--we'll have two musical acts, open bar, appetizers, and one of the south's most attractive modern art museums as a venue...but alas, no Pete.

BTW--Any GCA type who wants to mosey by for the soiree just drop me a line at info@vagabondgolfer.com and it would be my pleasure to send you an e-vite and put you on the list for the party...which should be very festive!

JC Urbina

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #34 on: November 02, 2008, 06:05:03 PM »

Joel
Some of Pete's ideas were just random thoughts.  I remember him leaning on my shoulder when we were doing the Karsten Golf Course @ A.S.U and suggesting a few ideas during the construction of the course.  I simply replied " will try it Pete" and moved on to the next hole.  One thing I learned from Pete was the notion that you didn't say no you just tried something and if it didn't work you moved on.  I carry that willingness to try something new everyday with me even today, especially when working on some of our new designs.
Did you have the chance to experience that hanging around Pete during the writing of your book.  Your title was Fifty years of Visionary Design but from my experience it was Pete's ability to motivate and convince people to try something new and imaginative.

PCCraig

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #35 on: November 02, 2008, 06:19:43 PM »
Mr. Urbina,

Thank you for posting about your experience. That is a fantastic observation of your relationship with P. Dye.

Would you say you learned more trying something that didn't work than something that you felt you coasted through or took the "safe" route?
H.P.S.

JC Urbina

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #36 on: November 02, 2008, 07:06:24 PM »
Pat
I couldn't say that I learned from doing something wrong other then not to do it again.  It's the willingness to try that's the important part.  One of the reasons I have enjoyed working with in house construction crews for so long is the idea of no preconcieved notions. 
One time I asked Ken Nice during the construction of Pacific Dunes  to strip some native grasses with a sod cutter to mask a main line cut we made through a dune.  Ken didn't say no, he got the crew to try and cut whatever they could and move it over to hole # 8.  The process worked and you would never know where we made a cut going over to # 9 fairway.  The normal reaction would have been NO that won't work lets just order some sod and fix  the area.  Just a little extra effort and the willingness to try it.  That's All

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #37 on: November 03, 2008, 10:10:22 AM »

Joel
Some of Pete's ideas were just random thoughts. 
Did you have the chance to experience that hanging around Pete during the writing of your book.

Jim--My favorite "random moment" in the new book is the story of the monster bunker to the left on the par-5 16th at PGA West--Stadium.  Pete told the 'dozer operator to excavate until he hit water...envisioning a medium-depth bunker.  Well--no water was found until the hole was 20 feet deep.  Pete loved the penal concept of the bunker, and convinced the ownership group to leave it be..it's become one of his most notorious
bunkers in his whole career.

As for "hanging around" with Pete--didn't happen much.  I was flat-out, traveling the country and beyond, trying to see/play everything I could, and our paths rarely crossed in person.  One exception:  He and Alice took me to lunch at Crooked Stick.  Pete asked a passing waitress if it would be OK if we sat in the Dye Room---talk about self-effacing!

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #38 on: November 03, 2008, 10:33:52 AM »
Joel,

Regarding your listing in the back of the book, did Pete really work with Joe Finger on Cottonwood Creek in Waco, TX? Or was that Ken Dye?  Also, did he do Shepard AFB near Wichita Falls in 1958? I recall Joe Finger's first project was an AFB, and it makes sense it was in Texas.  I didn't think Pete had anything to do with that one.

Just asking if your fact checkers were on the ball!
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #39 on: November 03, 2008, 11:33:57 AM »
Jeff,

I don't know the answers to those questions, but I suppose I could call Pete and find out.

BTW--This site makes for great practice should I ever need to face a Grand Jury..you guys are relentless!  Here's my story and I'm sticking to it:  The body of the book has some 70,000 words of text.  That's what I concerned myself with when putting this together.  The esoterica at book's end--whether Cynthia Dye's Pine Nut 60 Golf Club in Korea will eventually undergo a name change to Pine Nut 59....whether co-designer Milt Coggins of New Mexico's Alto Lakes was called "Milton" by his mother...those questions are just too tough!
 (Now--if you want to quiz me on "Seinfeld" trivia...I'm here for you!)

Jeff_Brauer

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #40 on: November 03, 2008, 12:09:44 PM »
Joel,

Seinfeld?  For me it's "no contest."

I also had the question about Alto Lakes, BTW. I had been up there, having done a nearby course, and sort of recall Dye being involved, but that was questioned by some.  Based on the course design, Milt Coggins sounds more like it.

It sounds like you got the course lists from the Dye's or elsewhere, which I understand.  But, as I made my second run through the book, those lists caught my eye........
Jeff Brauer, ASGCA Director of Outreach

Yannick Pilon

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #41 on: November 03, 2008, 12:37:54 PM »
Hey Joel!

Can't wait to get hold of my copy!!  How long does it usually take to get it shipped?  I ordered mine more than ten days ago.....

Thanks.

YP
www.yannickpilongolf.com - Golf Course Architecture, Quebec, Canada

Joel Zuckerman

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #42 on: November 03, 2008, 12:44:43 PM »
[
Joel,



It sounds like you got the course lists from the Dye's or elsewhere, which I understand.  But, as I made my second run through the book, those lists caught my eye........

Yannick--Your copy was mailed last Tuesday--you should have it this week..

Jeff--You are exactly right---At project's inception, Perry Dye sent me a sheaf of material (course lists) the size/scope of a Torah scroll, and a strongbox full of audiotapes, and said, "Have Fun!"  It took me a week or so just to organize the material before embarking on the project, and as it all wound down, his company reviewed/submitted the entire Master List of Dye-Designed Courses around the world.....but that time my eyes were glazed over...

Yannick Pilon

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #43 on: November 12, 2008, 01:53:45 PM »
Joel,
 
This is just a quick note to say that I received my book last week and that the associated shirt just came in as well.
 
The book looks fantastic, and the writing appears to be excellent as well, at least in the parts I have read so far!!  I was also pleasantly surprised when I received my shirt, which is of excellent quality.
 
This is a great offer you have set up for potential buyers.  Many thanks to you, and I wish you the best of luck in your future projects.

YP
www.yannickpilongolf.com - Golf Course Architecture, Quebec, Canada

Mark Pritchett

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #44 on: November 20, 2008, 09:45:20 PM »
I just wanted to say I received my book yesterday and I am having a blast reading about the courses I have played and I am also enjoying making a list of courses to play in the future.  A perfect complement to "Bury me in a Pot Bunker".

Thanks again Joel for the great offer!


Chris Cupit

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Re: Pete Dye Golf Courses: Fifty Years of Visionary Design
« Reply #45 on: November 20, 2008, 09:55:11 PM »
Joel,

Thanks for the book and the custom cover.  It's been tough to put down ;D


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