[Mark Pearce]

Kyle -

That is a VERY ambitious itinerary!

I would concentrate on central Scotland and save Dornoch & Cruden Bay for another trip. Save those 2 courses for a north of Scotland trip and include it with Royal Aberdeen, Nairn, Castle Stuart, Brora, Goslpie, etc.

There are PLENTY of worthwhile courses in East Lothian and Fife that you would enjoy playing.  As mentioned above, you would also enjoy playing some courses a 2nd time.

DT        

I hear you. But another trip to Scotland will probably be a decades down the road, if I ever return. After all, there's still Ireland, England, Australia & New Zealand to cover golf-wise, and a very wide world outside of golf destinations.

At this point, the extent of my international travels (golfing or otherwise) is limited to Cabo and Ensenada (Mexico), and Banff/Jasper (Canada). I've got a lot to discover.

Will I not deeply regret missing out on Dornoch for the sake of a few "lesser known" courses in Fife?

Kyle,

Dornoch is wonderful but so are many of the courses on your list.  So also are some of those "lesser known" courses.  Places like Crail, Elie and Panmure are well worth a visit, indeed they may be the equal of some of the courses that are on your list.  In the end the choice is yours, of course, and it's a difficult one.

If you do choose to play some of those minor Fife courses, let me know, I'd be happy to host you at Crail or play with you at Elie.

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle:

Mark just upped the ante quite a bit.

See, the problem here is that for most of us visiting Yanks, the romantic vision of playing and fraternizing with members over there is just that:  a vision only.  IF this can be arranged, that changes the equation.  But for the most part we Yanks send in our inquiries, play unaccompanied, perhaps get let in the clubhouse, perhaps not... In that scenario, staying to play again, well... yes you get to know the course better, but all the other stuff remains illusory.  So I can surely understand wanting to see another course, if only to avoid the later regret.

Now if you are invited to spend a day with members, then I just can't see ANY course worth leaving to do that.  That is what it is all about.

The point remains however that few get such opportunities.   My comments are addressed to the average Yank for whom this just doesn't happen.

But now Kyle, as I say, Mark upped the ante.  Playing WITH HIM at one of those so-called "lesser" courses like Crail, or Elie... well that's an experience not to be missed.  Oh, you will regret not seeing Dornoch - such regret is very very real.  But look at it this way:  it just gives you that much of an excuse to do whatever it takes to get back - even if the reality is that is decades away.

TH

[Reef Wilson]

As a first timer the temptation to see as much as possible is irresistible and I have absolutely no regrets doing so. Next time I will definitely try to station myself for a few days in one spot, but with the long days of summer it is quite easy to get in 2 rounds and still do a whole bunch of driving. And coming from California, the distances are minimal. Not too mention all the beautiful countryside you get to see.

I played 11 rounds(and saw a round at the open) in 8 days on my first and only trip which had me as spread out as Brora, Murcar, North Berwick and making 2 separate visits to Fife. And it wasn't like I stuck exclusively to the "must plays." I played at least 2 courses that would not be in the top 40 in Scotland lists of most people on this site and I was quite happy doing so.

Another factor is how big a group you are traveling with. I imagine if you have a foursome or more that it makes more sense to savor, be social and not have to worry about herding the group to and fro. Whereas solo or a twosome might free you up to run around a bit more.

Reef

[Anthony Gray]

Kyle:

Mark just upped the ante quite a bit.

See, the problem here is that for most of us visiting Yanks, the romantic vision of playing and fraternizing with members over there is just that:  a vision only.  IF this can be arranged, that changes the equation.  But for the most part we Yanks send in our inquiries, play unaccompanied, perhaps get let in the clubhouse, perhaps not... In that scenario, staying to play again, well... yes you get to know the course better, but all the other stuff remains illusory.  So I can surely understand wanting to see another course, if only to avoid the later regret.

Now if you are invited to spend a day with members, then I just can't see ANY course worth leaving to do that.  That is what it is all about.

The point remains however that few get such opportunities.   My comments are addressed to the average Yank for whom this just doesn't happen.

But now Kyle, as I say, Mark upped the ante.  Playing WITH HIM at one of those so-called "lesser" courses like Crail, or Elie... well that's an experience not to be missed.  Oh, you will regret not seeing Dornoch - such regret is very very real.  But look at it this way:  it just gives you that much of an excuse to do whatever it takes to get back - even if the reality is that is decades away.

TH

  Tom,

   I understnd your point perfectly. You would rather golf a cow pasture with me and Melvyn than TOC alone. Again you have honored me.

                                                            Anthony

[Kyle Henderson]

Thank you all for this tremendous input. I feel like I've hijacked the thread without taking it off topic. It's nice to have GCA brain collective working for me.

Kmoum,
I drove from California to Colorado and Nebraska for golfing purposes. I can't imagine anything in Scotland will seem very far. But, I would certainly prefer to play a hidden gem in leiu of spending 5 hours on the road. How much driving time are we talking about from St. Andrews to Dornoch? Isn't the drive itself a great way to see Scotland?



Mark,

I would LOVE to play with you. Thank you for the inivitation. I fully expect to refine my plan of action should this option shift from possible to plausible.

Tom,
I assume Muirfield will require the earliest and most concerted effort to access and would warrant the most on-site savoring time in terms of experiencing the "club amenities," correct?

Reef,

I will probably just have 1 other in my party at most. I'm very seriously considering a solo run, since most of my "golf mates are a generation or more older than I. Also, it's easier to sneak on as a single TOC.  

[Tom Huckaby]

Kyle - you have that right.  Muirfield requires the most advance planning and will be the most worth it.

Anthony - the funny part about that is that it's for the most part true.

TH

[Bill_McBride]

How much driving time are we talking about from St. Andrews to Dornoch? Isn't the drive itself a great way to see Scotland?

The drive was about 4-1/2 hours and is through nice country but I wasn't thrilled.  I had a pretty good trip routing - I flew into Gatwick on Delta, then transferred to a local carrier to Inverness which was only about 45 minutes south of Dornoch.  I departed the same way, Edinburgh-London and on to Atlanta.

Tom,
I assume Muirfield will require the earliest and most concerted effort to access and would warrant the most on-site savoring time in terms of experiencing the "club amenities," correct?

You need to work with Muirfield a few months in advance, but you can check on their website http://www.muirfield.org.uk/ to see what tee times are available (only on Tuesday and Thursday) at any time.  Be sure to do "the day," morning fourball and afternoon foursome (or singles match if 2 players) sandwiched around a nice lunch with too much to drink.

Reef,

I will probably just have 1 other in my party at most. I'm very seriously considering a solo run, since most of my "golf mates are a generation or more older than I. Also, it's easier to sneak on as a single TOC.  

Kyle, it will be a better experience with a twosome, I think, although a few GCAers who have enjoyed the solo trip.  Actually more chance to meet locals that way.

[Deucie Bies]

Tom,
I assume Muirfield will require the earliest and most concerted effort to access and would warrant the most on-site savoring time in terms of experiencing the "club amenities," correct?

You need to work with Muirfield a few months in advance, but you can check on their website http://www.muirfield.org.uk/ to see what tee times are available (only on Tuesday and Thursday) at any time.  Be sure to do "the day," morning fourball and afternoon foursome (or singles match if 2 players) sandwiched around a nice lunch with too much to drink.

Kyle,

I agree 100% with Bill re: Muirfield.  It was one of the most enjoyable days I have had at a golf club.  The lunch was excellent and the members were very friendly.  We were late for our afternoon tee time because the members invited us to enjoy some kummel (sp?) with them.  Then we played foursomes (alternate shot) which came down to my opponents 4 putting the last for a halve!  The website is very easy to use, but does require significant advance planning.  Have fun!

[Doug Wright]

This is all a matter of one's predilections.

Traveling with one other guy, we played 13 courses (one twice) in 7 days in Northern Ireland and Ireland the last week of September 2008. It was the most fun I'd had since I played 12 courses (one twice) in 8 days in Scotland with two other guys in September 2005. I wouldn't have changed a thing. On both trips, we played courses both well known and lesser known,  played with members and met locals (including, on the Ireland trip, GCAer Matthew Hunt), ate meals at the clubs and got to experience the variety of links golf that is unique to those countries. Some driving was involved, but it was very manageable. We never felt rushed. For me, the joy of new experiences trumps whatever additional knowledge I might gain from a second playing of a course, and I can see and learn a whole lot the first time round too. It's going to take a lot of additional playing before I truly know a course like Royal Dornoch, as much as I'd like to do that. Bottom line for me:  We might never pass through these parts again. Let's experience as much as we can. If I ever get back there, I will know what I really like (eg, Royal Dornoch, Cruden Bay) or don't (eg Dornoch Struie, Lundin Links) and will plan accordingly.   Others might do it differently, or think I'm nuts, but as long as I'm healthy enough to do it this way I plan to do so.  

[Kyle Henderson]

How much driving time are we talking about from St. Andrews to Dornoch? Isn't the drive itself a great way to see Scotland?

The drive was about 4-1/2 hours and is through nice country but I wasn't thrilled.  I had a pretty good trip routing - I flew into Gatwick on Delta, then transferred to a local carrier to Inverness which was only about 45 minutes south of Dornoch.  I departed the same way, Edinburgh-London and on to Atlanta.



Tom,
I assume Muirfield will require the earliest and most concerted effort to access and would warrant the most on-site savoring time in terms of experiencing the "club amenities," correct?

You need to work with Muirfield a few months in advance, but you can check on their website http://www.muirfield.org.uk/ to see what tee times are available (only on Tuesday and Thursday) at any time.  Be sure to do "the day," morning fourball and afternoon foursome (or singles match if 2 players) sandwiched around a nice lunch with too much to drink.

Reef,

I will probably just have 1 other in my party at most. I'm very seriously considering a solo run, since most of my "golf mates are a generation or more older than I. Also, it's easier to sneak on as a single TOC.  

Kyle, it will be a better experience with a twosome, I think, although a few GCAers who have enjoyed the solo trip.  Actually more chance to meet locals that way.

Thanks Mr. McB!


Another question: How should I prioritize?

For this trip my tentative priorities are:
1) St. Andrews (course, culture, sights, sounds, smells, shops)
2) Other notable courses (A)Best of the best-- unless price is particularly outlandish (B)Open Rota courses past and present, (C) hidden gems (D) dumb blondes (Castle Course?)
3) Seeing non-golf "tourist" regions and attractions.
4) Avoiding the weeks around The Open and the associated logistical headaches.


note: Meeting GCAers in conjuction with any of the above categories will automatically bump up the priority level by one or more strata.

[Bill_McBride]

Kyle, I have been to the Open at St Andrews and it was a great experience.  Of course all the Links Trust courses were closed, we did play Crail on Thursday after Tuesday and Wednesday before in North Berwick.  (We were two couples so skipped Muirfield  ).

If I were going alone or with one other guy, I would fly into Edinburgh, rent a car, and head for North Berwick for an afternoon round on the famous West Links.  I would go out to dinner in the town after copious drinks at the clubhouse, and then walk unsteadily to my nearby B&B.

I would have set up golf for the next couple of days in North Berwick and perhaps Gullane, Longniddry, what else, Dunbar, and then pack up and head to St Andrews, perhaps by the coast road so that Richard Farnsworth Goodale can show off Aberdour en route.

Then settle into a B&B in St Andrews and start entering the ballot, gettiing up early, etc etc to get a crack or two at the Old Course.  There is a lot of good golf a short drive away - Crail, Carnoustie, Panmur, Elie, Lundin Links, Leven, Kingsbarns $$, Castle Course $$.

I'm getting a semi-woodie just thinking about it. 

[Marty Bonnar]

Uncle Bill,
you know how upset I'd be if I knew you'd been to Fife and hadn't stopped by!!!
BTW, as previously stated, that pretty much goes for every GCAer (except Barney of course....nah, wait a minute, EVEN Barney! )

best,
FBD.

[Bill_McBride]

But of course, nephew!  You are a legend in Fife, sorry to have left you off the (very) preliminary proposed agenda.

[Kyle Henderson]

I'm getting a semi-woodie just thinking about it. 

One of those instances in which I dearly wished I did NOT know what a fellow GCAer looks like.

[Bill_McBride]

I'm getting a semi-woodie just thinking about it. 

One of those instances in which I dearly wished I did NOT know what a fellow GCAer looks like.

That was a golf semi-woodie.

[Eric Smith]

I'm getting a semi-woodie just thinking about it. 

One of those instances in which I dearly wished I did NOT know what a fellow GCAer looks like.

That was a golf semi-woodie.

Would that be a hybrid then? 

[Bill_McBride]

I suggest we drop this line of discussion immediately - if not sooner! 

[Ken Moum]

Another question: How should I prioritize?

For this trip my tentative priorities are:
1) St. Andrews (course, culture, sights, sounds, smells, shops)
2) Other notable courses (A)Best of the best-- unless price is particularly outlandish (B)Open Rota courses past and present, (C) hidden gems (D) dumb blondes (Castle Course?)
3) Seeing non-golf "tourist" regions and attractions.
4) Avoiding the weeks around The Open and the associated logistical headaches.


note: Meeting GCAers in conjuction with any of the above categories will automatically bump up the priority level by one or more strata.

You already got a better anser than I could have given on the actual drive time as we were staying in Nairn, so we didn't drive from Dornoch to Fife. We also played Boat on the way south, and spent a night in Dundee as well.

Regarding your priorities, I can't argue with them. After our first trip, my wife and I have agreed that our next will focus on all the "rest" of the courses. I want to get to the west coast, but there's something about courses like Brora, Wick and Fortrose-Rosemarkie, et. al., that speak to my inner Scot.

My only explanation is that I think one of my Norwegian ancestors must have met a girl on one of his "trips" to the island.

Ken

[Reef Wilson]

Reef,

I will probably just have 1 other in my party at most. I'm very seriously considering a solo run, since most of my "golf mates are a generation or more older than I. Also, it's easier to sneak on as a single TOC.  

Kyle,

I had a blast flying solo and would recomend it for those who don't mind doing things by themselves in general. I did visit a couple of friends along the way which broke up the alone time nicely, but I assume you'll have some GCA folks to hook up with and of course you'll end up getting paired with some fabulous people, though I did not end up getting paired with too many locals, mostly other visitors.

As a single, I didn't have to make any advance reservations except for TOC where a friend got me in via the locals lottery(turns out I could have walked on at around that time anyway). Otherwise I just called ahead (a UK rechargable phone or sim card is a very wise investment) a day or 2 to see if turning up would work and about when.

I'm sure you'll have a blast and I am more than a little jealous!
Reef

[Reef Wilson]

If I were going alone or with one other guy, I would fly into Edinburgh, rent a car, and head for North Berwick for an afternoon round on the famous West Links.  I would go out to dinner in the town after copious drinks at the clubhouse, and then walk unsteadily to my nearby B&B.

A great idea here. I chose to fly in and then go for 9 at Old Musselburgh. A great place to hit one's first golf shot in Scotland.

Reef

PS Forking over for the rental GPS unit was one of the best decisions I made. And I should probably clarify the GPS is for driving the car, not yardages.

[Kyle Henderson]

Reef: Great suggestions!

Will any other members of the GCA fraternity be in Scotland around lat May-early June of 2009? Shoot me a message if you'd like to "link" up.


Sorry about the pun infraction...

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