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Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #50 on: November 04, 2008, 01:18:30 PM »


Sod reinforced bunkers, nothing new here,  I’m sure Bill will remembers our discussion on here some months ago when talked about North Berwick and the bunkers seen in the above photos posted by Bill yesterday. The Hell Bunker on TOC was also fitted with these sod restraints, they can be seen on the picture of Hell Bunker dated 1897 in the British Golf Links book.

Actually those sod faced bunkers are at Hoylake......and I really like them in spite of their not being terribly "natural."  They present a formidable obstacle unlike many of today's benign bunkers with flat bottoms and low walls.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #51 on: November 04, 2008, 05:26:01 PM »

AHughes

I still stand by my original statement, but of course there must be a cut off point. How maintenance is carried out is subject to cost and time constraints, but I have no problem with the sod lined bunkers they have a close connection to the natural fragmented layered rock and will in time have grass growing between the sods. Natural, well yes, I suppose it is a natural finish when considering the material and its appearance to certain type of rocks faces. I believe you have many, many examples of these fragmented layered rocks that look very similar to Bills photos scattered throughout North America.

No, I do not have a problem with TOC either, because the sod faced bunkers due to their material content look very much like natural layered fragmented rocks.

As for the stone walls my point which all seem to miss and ignore is that as they appeared in the early courses - which had no preset standards regards hazards – they do not qualify as quirky. We can go on all day discussing the finer points, but clearly we are not going to agree, because this has nothing to do with quirks, it’s I suspect just trying to have a go at me – if that is how you get your kicks then hope you are enjoying yourself.

Pete Lavallee

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Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #52 on: November 04, 2008, 05:48:57 PM »

 I believe you have many, many examples of these fragmented layered rocks that look very similar to Bills photos scattered throughout North America.


None that I've seen holding up the face of a bunker!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Andy Hughes

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #53 on: November 05, 2008, 08:21:14 AM »
Quote
As for the stone walls my point which all seem to miss and ignore is that as they appeared in the early courses - which had no preset standards regards hazards – they do not qualify as quirky. We can go on all day discussing the finer points, but clearly we are not going to agree, because this has nothing to do with quirks, it’s I suspect just trying to have a go at me – if that is how you get your kicks then hope you are enjoying yourself.
Melvyn, I am mystified you would take anything I've said personally, or as having 'a go' at you.  The issue is your use of the word quirk--the word has a specific meaning and you are trying to change the meaning. I have tried to point that out--nothing more, nothing less.

And while many of us love the courses that you champion on gca.com, your claim that the bunkers shown in Bill's pictures do indeed look natural truly falls flat, at least to me. Yes, I like that bunker style personally, and I surely prefer the courses you play to the ones I play, but there is no way one can say they look natural or naturally formed.  When you look around Hoylake or TOC, do you see anything naturally-formed that looks like the bunkers in the photo below?
"Perhaps I'm incorrect..."--P. Mucci 6/7/2007

Sean_A

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Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2008, 03:47:21 AM »
Melvyn

I don't really know what you are on about with the layered rock analogy.  Sand is usually a dynamic material.  It blows about.  The entire reason for people making pot bunkers is to contain sand.  It is about function more than any sort of natural look.  I tend to prefer pots because they can be less visually intrusive on a landsape, but that in no way means they are more natural looking.

Ciao

« Last Edit: November 06, 2008, 03:49:06 AM by Sean Arble »
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2008, 09:44:47 AM »
Sean

I was not going to respond as I feel we are drifting away from my original post but as certain people have some difficulty with my opinions I will try and clarify the situation.

Some are questioning my views on Natural and how I can justify my feeling, its quite simple, I prefer natural and harmonious courses to man made manicured showpieces looking like a picture postcard yet stand out against the natural environment. Nothing more than that, nothing sinister, just my preference.

As for quirky, I don’t see a course with a stone wall or road running by the side odd, strange or new, so certainly do not see anything quirky. As most of these course are over 100 years old they in the main were constructed (note I use the word constructed and not suddenly appeared out of the blue – or should I say Nature because some guy with a ball and club thought he saw a course in a corner of a far off field) and where these hazards and others were used. Just because the modern golfer no longer likes blind holes (wonder why – but that another story), turf dykes etc, so modern designers very seldom include them in their designs. But that does not give the right to call these old and time tested features quirky. Ok so the course(s) you normally play do not have them, but the ones I play do, they have been there from nearly the start of time itself, so please excuse me if I do not consider these as quirky.

As for Sod or riveted bunkers. These where introduced as a maintenance addition to help retain the structure of the bunkers. The material used and the way it is put down reminds me of the fragmented layered rock found expose at sea sides as well as all over the world, it looks natural, far better than a solid expanse of concrete. Don’t agree fine, don’t follow the analogy, well I’m just saying it looks like this type of rock formation, that’s natural and I‘m OK with that.

The problem is not Nature or Natural, it’s the way others perceive my comments. Their game is different to they way I was taught, the original way it was played in the 19th Century I suppose, so apparently by labelling me as an old traditionalist my game and my opinions can be sidelined, criticised and ultimately dismissed as not appropriate in the way OTHERS play today.  Right or wrong, but they belittle their own argument by bring up Hickory Clubs, Feathery or Gutta-Percha balls, etc. Technology is not the enemy of golf, far from it but it should be used to maintain the status quo not keep trying to redefine it. Clubs and balls can be designed to offer the distance and characteristics of the Gutta-Percha/Haskell ball or the Hickory Shafted clubs, but that is not what modern golfers want – lets all be honest, we all want gain without pain, an easier life, to expend less energy and effort, so we all look for what we consider a shortcut, be it club/ball, distance information plus the cart to just make our lives that little bit easier.  The best example of that are distance/mark/electronic aids, we become to attached to them that without them our game suffers, that’s what many have posted on this site alone, yet play without them for a month and the inbuilt human ability to judge distance reappears. As for carts – as I have always said they should only be use by those who need them. As for climate conditions, Yes they can be used for this purpose, but I question the sanity of building a course in an environment not fit or land not fit for purpose. I want to swim on the moon, but quite frankly it’s just not practicable, but with enough money I expect I could achieve my wish. A daft analogy perhaps but that how I consider building course in inappropriate places.

From my memory most of the courses in North American were introduced by guys from Scotland, who learnt to play the game in Scotland, but the game today is now different on the North American continent. Why because it was changed, who moved away and why, well that’s for another post or new topic, but changed it was.  I certainly voice my concerns, I am certain that what seems like good courses are scared with cart tracks, the obsession of distance information is actually hurting the golfer (his/her performance is reduced when no distance aids are allowed/used).

I regret to say that I see not advantage, in fact it would appear to my humble self that the Scottish game still has more to offer the Golfer, but then perhaps I would say that, after all there is only one game that was exported from Scotland and it can still be found in the Glens and heartland of our small great country.


Anthony Gray

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2008, 10:16:24 AM »
 

 Melvyn,

  We just cannot compare links courses in the UK to nonlinks american courses. Ealier I said it is in the eye of the beholder. What is natural in your eye is quirky to an other.

  I personally prefer golf in the UK over golf in the US. I understand why the word is offensive because it does conotate something is abnormal. And I have never seen any holes in the UK that were abnormal. I have however seen holes in the US that are abnormal.

  What adjectives would you use to describe courses in the middle of the desert or courses like Tobacco Road and The Castle Course?

                              Anthony


 

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2008, 11:21:38 AM »
Anthony

No, the word is not offensive, I certainly don’t take that meaning. If it was the standard, the normal how can it be described as quirky when no one knew what was standard, normal or quirky when these features were originally built or incorporated into the design.

I can’t really comment on American courses, apart from saying interesting. As for the Castle Course it is a carbuncle on the face of Fife. It may turn out to be a good course but for me it is totally compromised, as a cash cow in both ways with no Soul because it was ripped out at conception.


Matt_Ward

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #58 on: November 06, 2008, 11:29:32 AM »
Gents:

For those of you in the GCA audience who have this penchant to putdown anything of golf design not completely classic oriented golf to the max please do yourself a huge favor and drop the elite snobbery that's so utterly transparent.

Quirk style golf here in the USA -- is viewed as being silly and horrendous golf when in reality in those instances when it works is quite entertaining type stuff.

The course in question I am speaking specifically about is Wolf Creek in Mesquite, NV. The course fits the mantra of what many see Las Vegas as. Clearly, the course eschews conventionality and you have a range of holes that clearly follow a far different path that the traditional "paint by the number" design outcomes that dominate the American landscape.

Golf on the other side of the pond never followed some set playbook that golf had to be designed in one particular manner.

What's so funny is how people will gush about greens hanging on or near rail lines or have fences or walls along side them but should anything close to that be tried here in the States the howls of the classic school barking dogs can be heard from coast to coast. How amusing indeed.

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #59 on: November 06, 2008, 11:30:50 AM »
Melyvn,

Its possible its a cash cow...but then again, aren't pretty much all the courses in St. Andrews just cash cows?

If they were charging reasonable rates perhaps I would be persuaded to think otherwise.  ;)

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #60 on: November 06, 2008, 12:20:49 PM »

My views of the courses at St Andrews are as follows

TOC, always part of the town and payment was to help maintain and try to ease congestion. Never started off as a revenue raiser

The New Course – introduced to try and help the increased interest in golf and to take some pressure off TOC.

The Duffers Course (known as the ladies before changed to Jubilee) was for the learners/ ladies and only 12 holes until 1903 when needs, because of congestion again arose and course extended to 18 holes.

The Eden, perhaps was the last course to actually be built which I feel was not necessary a cash cow.

As for the others many have different opinions but the worst for me is the location for the Castle Course and you know my feeling regards that course.

So, to cost, why should the Castle Course, so new, yet be so expensive nearly matching TOC – there are two possibilities, A) cash cow B) Cash cow to try and retrieve the ridicules amount spent on it. I am a supporter of The Links Trust, but can’t agree with them on the Castle Course. 


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #61 on: November 06, 2008, 12:27:38 PM »
Melyvn,

Its possible its a cash cow...but then again, aren't pretty much all the courses in St. Andrews just cash cows?

If they were charging reasonable rates perhaps I would be persuaded to think otherwise.  ;)

Kalen, a resident of St Andrews can play for a year for about what they charge visitors for a round on the Old Course (and now the Castle).

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #62 on: November 06, 2008, 02:12:47 PM »
Melyvn,

Its possible its a cash cow...but then again, aren't pretty much all the courses in St. Andrews just cash cows?

If they were charging reasonable rates perhaps I would be persuaded to think otherwise.  ;)

Kalen, a resident of St Andrews can play for a year for about what they charge visitors for a round on the Old Course (and now the Castle).

Fair enough Bill,

But then you'd have to live in St. Andrews.   ;D

It would be interesting to see what % of play at St. Andrews comes from locals, folks who live within 30 KM or so, and what % is everyone else.
If its mostly outside play at that much higher rate per round, then its a cash cow.  If not, then OK, maybe I could go along with it being more benevolant in who it serves.  ;)

Anthony Gray

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #63 on: November 06, 2008, 02:32:59 PM »


  No question The Castle Course generates money for the Links Trust. With the success of Kingsbarns and limited success of St Andrews Bay it was obvious The Castle would be profitable.


         


Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #64 on: November 06, 2008, 02:34:45 PM »
Kalen, if you could see the daily ballot during the summer, filled with the names of golfers from America and other origins, the Old is packed at 125 quid every day.  "Cash cow" hardly starts to sum it up.

Kyle Harris

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #65 on: November 06, 2008, 03:25:20 PM »
Melvyn,

A humble question.

Since you've never been to the United State, how can you know FOR SURE that the golf courses you critique are so out of harmony with their surroundings?

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #66 on: November 06, 2008, 03:33:31 PM »
Fair enough Bill,

But then you'd have to live in St. Andrews.   ;D


Yeah, like that would be a problem!  ;)  I would LOVE to live in St Andrews.  Have you been there yet?

Kalen Braley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #67 on: November 06, 2008, 04:19:09 PM »
Fair enough Bill,

But then you'd have to live in St. Andrews.   ;D


Yeah, like that would be a problem!  ;)  I would LOVE to live in St Andrews.  Have you been there yet?

No,

Not yet, I'm do for a visit.  As for living there though, I do like to see the sun more than a couple dozen times per year.   ;D

Bill_McBride

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #68 on: November 06, 2008, 04:57:02 PM »
Fair enough Bill,

But then you'd have to live in St. Andrews.   ;D


Yeah, like that would be a problem!  ;)  I would LOVE to live in St Andrews.  Have you been there yet?

No,

Not yet, I'm do for a visit.  As for living there though, I do like to see the sun more than a couple dozen times per year.   ;D

I've been to St Andrews five times in the last 10 years and have been lucky with the weather - only one day with scattered showers at Crail, nice weather the rest of the time.

However, past results are no guarantee of future results!  ;D  But you will love St Andrews, it is one of the most pleasant places I've ever been.

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #69 on: November 06, 2008, 05:40:16 PM »
Kalen

Perhaps you need to know what you are talking about before you put pen to paper otherwise you can come across as one hell of a fool. St Andrews is the Home of Golf as well as many local clubs who play over the courses. You will be surprised at how many locals play the courses on a regular basis and I do not mean TOC alone. With a choice of 6 courses (7 if you include the Castle, which my understanding is not that popular – but time will tell) the people of St Andrews are indeed fortunate.   

You posted the following and I quote “If not, then OK, maybe I could go along with it being more benevolant in who it serves".  That is most generous of you, but when I last looked St Andrews & Fife were in Scotland not in the USA.   


Kyle

Your post Reply#65

Melvyn,

A humble question.

Since you've never been to the United State, how can you know FOR SURE that the golf courses you critique are so out of harmony with their surroundings?

Do you have a reading problem or just don’t bother reading my post anymore because I have said the following as part of my reply#57    “I can’t really comment on American courses, apart from saying interesting”.

What I said was 
“Some are questioning my views on Natural and how I can justify my feeling, its quite simple, I prefer natural and harmonious courses to man made manicured showpieces looking like a picture postcard yet stand out against the natural environment. Nothing more than that, nothing sinister, just my preference”

However if you feel my description fits a course you know then you obviously seem to agree with me and infer that a or some courses in the United States comply with my description – but I did not give any examples apart from the Castle Course in Fife.

So please show some consistency, otherwise people might think you are just being confrontational.


James Boon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #70 on: November 06, 2008, 06:12:32 PM »
I’ve been watching this thread since the start and holding back till things calm down a bit, but nevermind, I’ll give it a go…

The Oxford English Dictionary defines quirk as 1. a peculiarity of behaviour, 2. a trick of fate, a freak and 3. a flourish in writing. A quick check on the interweb brings it up on thefreedictionary.com as a, A peculiarity of behavior; an idiosyncrasy b, An unpredictable or unaccountable act or event; a vagary c, A sudden sharp turn or twist, d, An equivocation (Open to two or more interpretations and often intended to mislead; ambiguous) ; a quibble.

I had recently been wondering about starting a similar thread regarding the use of the word quirky, as when ever I’ve read it on here (and yes often in relation to courses I know and love over here in Britain) its frustrated me a little, probably due to my understanding of its potential definitions as above like freak, peculiar and intended to mislead.

Also, if a course or feature is defined as being a peculiarity or idiosyncratic then fine but if it’s the courses (in Britain) from which the rest of the game has developed, and quite often the new courses (often in America, but also all over the World, and here in Britain) have chosen to develop in another way (no blind shots, awkward greens, stone walls) then it’s a little unfair on the originals to call them quirky? This was how I read Melvyn’s original post.

I have therefore wondered if these features or courses that are described as quirky shouldn’t be described more as “sporty” as Tom Doak mentioned from writings of the past, I believe Sean Arble has used the term “funky” (Sean, please correct me if I’m speaking out of turn) or perhaps we should just say that the course has “character”? However, I must admit that I have even occasionally found myself using the phrase quirky, before correcting myself  ;)

However, if we look at the definition a little longer, it mentions a flourish in writing, and it is for this reason that the OED has led me to think that maybe these features being described as quirky is perhaps after all no bad thing. Where would we be without the occasional unpredictable or unaccountable act, the blind shot, the bunker or strange hollow we weren’t expecting? It is these elements that for me make the game worth returning to, because life isn’t meant to be fair and so if our field of play isn’t always fair, lets embrace it. Personally I cant wait to see where my ball has finished as I approach the top of a rise over which I’ve just hit my blind shot (and that’s why I can’t wait to go back to Royal County Down)!

Melvyn and others have made a good point that perhaps courses like Sawgrass or the Castle Course at St Andrews are peculiar and more deserving of the term quirky and at first I agreed. But the etymology of quirk in golf terms is used by so many now to describe the likes of Painswick, Prestwick and North Berwick, in what I now hope is an affectionate way, that perhaps it should stay that way, thanks to the wonderful flourish that some of these quirky characteristics bring to the story of our round.

Cheers,

James

Ps Regarding Adam Clayman’s post 9, with the photos of Wolf Creek. Am I the only one that thinks they look like someone has Photoshopped a golf course onto those pictures?
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

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Kyle Harris

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #71 on: November 06, 2008, 08:14:32 PM »
Melvyn,

I certainly agree that courses exist in the United States (and I'm sure the world) that do not blend harmoniously with their natural surroundings. However, the are many golf courses here that blend harmoniously with their surroundings AND have the heavy touch of man.

I'll predicate the following with this: I have never used the term quirky in a pejorative sense. I typically use it to describe a golf course where the golfer will experience something they may never experience elsewhere. In Philadelphia we have several courses that feature quarries, severe/abrupt elevation changes, and other aboriginal features which blend seamlessly with the golf course. For me, this is quirk at its finest. These courses were mostly built in the first quarter/third of the 20th Century.

We have a course here that was opened not too long ago which features the foundation of an old farmhouse in the middle of one of the fairways. The idea here, obviously, was to build quirk into the design and give the hole something that makes it stand out. I don't call this quirk. For me, a golf course's quirk must derive itself from some necessary compromise or situation that adds to the game being played. It would have been just as reasonable for the designed to fully remove the foundation and replace it with some sort of bunker or other hazard and have the golf hole play the exact same way. It would also have been ideal if the designer used the foundation in a far less obtrusive manner that added elegance without screaming for attention.  I would imagine it was possible for the stone wall at North Berwick to be removed from play at some point, however, the hole was routed most naturally that the stone wall added to the play of the hole. I am sure the nature of the game on the linksland has necessitated all sorts of similar compromises and decisions and that, for me, is where the quirkiness derives itself. Quirk comes from the aboriginal features on the site and not the standing which the course has compared to others.

Perhaps I am not reading closely enough, but a good portion of your posts on GCA seem to include non-too-subtle jabs at golf here in America but include one or two qualifiers deep in the post that provide a way out for you to simply say "it's your opinion." I respect your opinion, but ask that you please consider revising and/or attempting to prove it some time. Should you ever make your way across the Atlantic, I hope that you are able to use friendships formed here to seek out the very best that American golf has to offer in order to determine that your family's sacred game is indeed in good hands.

Anthony Gray

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #72 on: November 06, 2008, 08:31:31 PM »


   Melvyn,

    Captian my captian and my fellow gentleman golfer. Please come to the US. I greatly value your opinions and thoughts of golf. I would enjoy your thoughts on US courses. I truly believe that you would find a wonderful "heartbeat" at several courses here. I believe that some courses do truly lie on sacred ground and you can find it here in the US. Is the sacredness of golf greater in Scotland? Without a doubt. But please come visit us and share your thoughts.


                                               Anthony

 

Sean_A

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #73 on: November 07, 2008, 02:07:44 AM »
Sean

I was not going to respond as I feel we are drifting away from my original post but as certain people have some difficulty with my opinions I will try and clarify the situation.

Some are questioning my views on Natural and how I can justify my feeling, its quite simple, I prefer natural and harmonious courses to man made manicured showpieces looking like a picture postcard yet stand out against the natural environment. Nothing more than that, nothing sinister, just my preference.

As for quirky, I don’t see a course with a stone wall or road running by the side odd, strange or new, so certainly do not see anything quirky. As most of these course are over 100 years old they in the main were constructed (note I use the word constructed and not suddenly appeared out of the blue – or should I say Nature because some guy with a ball and club thought he saw a course in a corner of a far off field) and where these hazards and others were used. Just because the modern golfer no longer likes blind holes (wonder why – but that another story), turf dykes etc, so modern designers very seldom include them in their designs. But that does not give the right to call these old and time tested features quirky. Ok so the course(s) you normally play do not have them, but the ones I play do, they have been there from nearly the start of time itself, so please excuse me if I do not consider these as quirky.

As for Sod or riveted bunkers. These where introduced as a maintenance addition to help retain the structure of the bunkers. The material used and the way it is put down reminds me of the fragmented layered rock found expose at sea sides as well as all over the world, it looks natural, far better than a solid expanse of concrete. Don’t agree fine, don’t follow the analogy, well I’m just saying it looks like this type of rock formation, that’s natural and I‘m OK with that.

The problem is not Nature or Natural, it’s the way others perceive my comments. Their game is different to they way I was taught, the original way it was played in the 19th Century I suppose, so apparently by labelling me as an old traditionalist my game and my opinions can be sidelined, criticised and ultimately dismissed as not appropriate in the way OTHERS play today.  Right or wrong, but they belittle their own argument by bring up Hickory Clubs, Feathery or Gutta-Percha balls, etc. Technology is not the enemy of golf, far from it but it should be used to maintain the status quo not keep trying to redefine it. Clubs and balls can be designed to offer the distance and characteristics of the Gutta-Percha/Haskell ball or the Hickory Shafted clubs, but that is not what modern golfers want – lets all be honest, we all want gain without pain, an easier life, to expend less energy and effort, so we all look for what we consider a shortcut, be it club/ball, distance information plus the cart to just make our lives that little bit easier.  The best example of that are distance/mark/electronic aids, we become to attached to them that without them our game suffers, that’s what many have posted on this site alone, yet play without them for a month and the inbuilt human ability to judge distance reappears. As for carts – as I have always said they should only be use by those who need them. As for climate conditions, Yes they can be used for this purpose, but I question the sanity of building a course in an environment not fit or land not fit for purpose. I want to swim on the moon, but quite frankly it’s just not practicable, but with enough money I expect I could achieve my wish. A daft analogy perhaps but that how I consider building course in inappropriate places.

From my memory most of the courses in North American were introduced by guys from Scotland, who learnt to play the game in Scotland, but the game today is now different on the North American continent. Why because it was changed, who moved away and why, well that’s for another post or new topic, but changed it was.  I certainly voice my concerns, I am certain that what seems like good courses are scared with cart tracks, the obsession of distance information is actually hurting the golfer (his/her performance is reduced when no distance aids are allowed/used).

I regret to say that I see not advantage, in fact it would appear to my humble self that the Scottish game still has more to offer the Golfer, but then perhaps I would say that, after all there is only one game that was exported from Scotland and it can still be found in the Glens and heartland of our small great country.



Ok Melvyn.  Please tell me, what is a quirky (funky, sporty, whatever - doesn't matter as I believe everyone is using these terms synonymously) feature?  You seem to be saying that because these odd (or not odd even) features existed on at least one course in Scotland then they can't be quirky.  This implies that you are pointing toward any golf course built on a non-Scottish landscape as quirky.  Is this what you are trying to say?  Or maybe that any landscape that doesn't closely approximate Scotland (presumably including its inland landscapes) that is used for golf is quirky?  I know that you have completely lost me because what screams out most of all from your posts is IF IT ISN'T SCOTTISH IT'S CRAP!

Ciao

Ciao

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024: Nothing

Anthony Gray

Re: Quirky – Mainly used to describe Non American Courses?
« Reply #74 on: November 07, 2008, 07:26:34 AM »


  Sean,

     There is golf and then there is links golf. Apples to oranges. Blondes to redheads.

                                       Anthony


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