Mom and Dad Flemma to try True Blue instead - so let's talk TB!

[Jay Flemma]

Hey guys, remember how I thought Mom and Dad Flemma were going to Tobacco Road?  Well we worked the logistics and this time it'll be True Blue instead.

I think this is a good thing - for the moment.  Mom and Dad Flemma are pretty tolerant of unique golf course designs, but moreover, are a great litmus test for what the general golf populus would think of a course.  I think that sending them to 1) Caledonia (which they saw), THEN true blue and Tobacco road after that is the right way to go.  They'll ease into The Road better after another strantz design that sort of forms a bridge to tobacco road, both in time and in the course of Mike's career. 

I think they'll like True Blue just fine.  When it first came out, I know some people were wondering what the hell they were looking at, but with a few years of resurging old school GCA, I think we're far more tolerant of TB and the features it contains.

This is my guess about M&D's review.  They'll love it, they won't have seen anything like it, the scale of the course is BIG.  The Bunkers will drive them nuts.  They'll think it's beautiful, intersting, has great greens, and "man! that finishing hole! Wow!"  (That's my Dad, the last bit)  They may even say "he did Caledonia?  What a surprise, they look nothing alike.  I can't really predict which they'll like more, my guess is Caledonia, but they may surprise me.  Maybe the easier bunkering at TB rather than Caledonia will tip the scales the other way, the bunkers at Caledonia ate her alive...I know the feeling.

What do YOU think?  Which is YOUR fave?  Why?

Me?  I give the edge to caledonia...in design, in natural setting and in greens.  But I love the 18th at TB too.

[Tim Gavrich]

Jay--

While I like True Blue (and I think your parents should as well, though the forced carries might prove frustrating at times), I believe Caledonia to be its superior.  It's more challenging and interesting off the tee and from the green.  I just find TB's greens too huge to be really interesting, especially since the greens have never been fast enough (in the dozen or so times I've played there) so that the ball moves down the slopes.

I'd definitely recommend that they go have lunch at Caledonia either before or after the round at True Blue.

[CJ Carder]

Between True Blue and Caledonia, I gave my slight edge to True Blue primarily because I happen to enjoy the scale of True Blue coupled with it's seclusion (relatively speaking of course for Myrtle Beach) and I also thought it had a better selection of par 3's than Caledonia.  Don't get me wrong, this is like choice 1 and 1a for the Myrtle Beach golfing area.

Jay, I think your parents will definitely enjoy it.  While it may invoke a lot of nervous shots due to the scale, I actually think it's probably an easier course for the higher handicapper (assuming it's played from the appropriate tees of course).

[A.G._Crockett]

My only concern about True Blue is that they MUST play the correct tees.  For most men, that mean the third set of tees, not the second.  I think the second set is something like 6700+, and it is too difficult for all but the best golfers at that yardage.

That aside, I think they'll love the place.

[CJ Carder]

My only concern about True Blue is that they MUST play the correct tees.  For most men, that mean the third set of tees, not the second.  I think the second set is something like 6700+, and it is too difficult for all but the best golfers at that yardage.

That aside, I think they'll love the place.

Eh, but where does all the yardage come from?  To me, that's the bigger question. 

From the blue tees, it's a total of 6850.  You've got 3 par 5's at 580+, only 2 what I would consider sizably long par 4's (#17 & #18), and 1 long par 3 (#16).  The rest are just solid holes, nothing too too short (though I think #2 and #3 are fantastic shortish holes back to back), and the only other par 4 over 420 aside from #17 and #18 is #5 and the dogleg left allows you to reduce some of the 2nd shot distance with a more aggressive tee shot.

[Jay Flemma]

Those are all solid observations.  Tim, I agree that I like Caledonia more overall, but there are also spots in True Blue that are superb.  I loove both 18th holes.  Boy Strantz sure knew how to build a finisher, Royal; New Kent aside:)  That was just him having a laugh at us...

CJ, and AJ, I also agree with both of you.  Yes, no question, M&D will use the correct set of tees: dad the "whites" and mom the forwards..  They do that everywhere, even The Monster:  whites, reds.  No machismo.

I don't think they'll have so much problem with the scale - they'll notice it in comparison to the Upstate NY courses they live near, but they are remarkably hardy and open minded.  They'll comment that something was wild, but they're good at taking it in stride.  They tend to find unfairness in a false front that's shaved to tightly or something that looks dorky and plays dorky like the Old tenth green at Dismal River.

So what do you think about this question:  After seeing TB, Do you think they'll be more likely to like Tobacco Road?  Will that make them more tolerant of some of The Road's character?

[CJ Carder]

Jay,

Your parents seem like pretty tolerant people anyway and I think True Blue is probably an excellent introduction to some of Strantz's more "extreme" designs (RNK and The Road).  I found True Blue to be much more gentle overall than Tobacco Road, even though Tobacco Road is shorter. 

I think your parents will get to Tobacco Road and say, "yeah, I've seen something like this before."  Then they'll head out and be a bit surprised when they reach #5 or #7.  But it won't be one of those situations where they're completely blown away in pure shock.  As such, I don't think they'll have quite the polarizing opinion that so frequently accompanies a first playing of Tobacco Road.

[A.G._Crockett]

My take?  If they liked True Blue, they will LOVE Tobacco Road!  They will be blown away, and won't be able to stop talking about it.  Book it.

[Jay Flemma]

OK AG, tell me why?  Tell me your own experience...what was the first strantz you played?  Where did the road fit in?  Why do you think they'll love it?  Why will they love it more if they see TB first?

by the way, here's the M&D at Caledonia thread.  My favorite line, Dad about 18:  "what a hole!  You hit a big drive, then you hit it in the water!"

Actually my fave was mom:  "tell Furry Fozler to make the par-3s shorter!"

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31740.0.html


I will try to book Tobacco road for the spring, but the best laid plans...

[A.G._Crockett]

OK AG, tell me why?  Tell me your own experience...what was the first strantz you played?  Where did the road fit in?  Why do you think they'll love it?  Why will they love it more if they see TB first?

by the way, here's the M&D at Caledonia thread.  My favorite line, Dad about 18:  "what a hole!  You hit a big drive, then you hit it in the water!"

Actually my fave was mom:  "tell Furry Fozler to make the par-3s shorter!"

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,31740.0.html


I will try to book Tobacco road for the spring, but the best laid plans...

Jay,
The Road was the first Strantz that I played.

I'm not saying they'll love the Road more because they saw TB first; I'm saying that if they liked TB, then the Road will knock 'em out.  It sounds like they like new stuff, and they've never seen anything like the Road.

I say this because, to me, TB is a coastal version of the Road.  TB is cool, but the Road is far, far more "extreme".  Illusions of difficulty, wild green sites, forced (but manageable) carries, and all the things that make TB fun are at the Road, but added in are elevation changes, ridge lines in the fairway, and on and on. 

TB is Steve Martin; the Road is Mel Brooks.

[Ryan Farrow]

Caledonia is far superior. True Blue gets borderline un-playable at times, depending on ability. Must add, that I think the closing holes on each respective course were huge let downs. Although the harassing spectators at Caledonia are a hoot.

I too recommend lunch at Caledonia before or after the round.

[Jay Flemma]

Caledonia is far superior. True Blue gets borderline un-playable at times, depending on ability. Must add, that I think the closing holes on each respective course were huge let downs. Although the harassing spectators at Caledonia are a hoot.

I too recommend lunch at Caledonia before or after the round.

Oh I had a train wreck with the spectators at caledonia the first time...and yes, the food is outstanding.  dad liked the tradition of lemonade on the veranda, then watch the remaining groups come in.

[Jay Flemma]

I have to agree with something I read on another thread, I also think that with Pine Needles next door, Mid-Pines is a let down.