[Jay Flemma]

From my 84 year old father "The greens were massive!  They had to be 50 yards long and the last one had to be 70 or 80 yards long.  Man what a lot of water to carry on that last shot.  You hit a big drive and then you hit it in the water!  The bunkers were murder.  You get in the sand and you don't know if you're gonna get out again.  The greens were in the best shape I have ever played.  And it was beautiful.  Wow, what a place."

Jay:  How did you you do on 18?

Dad:  "How do you think?  I can't hit the ball the hell over that water.  but it sure was something special."

From mom flemma, who's in her 70s:  "What are you doing sending me to par-3s where I have to hit driver?  I wanna hit my 5-wood.  But it was beautiful.  The course was in magnificent shape.  I think it was them most interesting course I have ever played.  Oh, the sand was terribly hard!  And it was everywhere!  That last hole was something else.  But how beautiful and interesting.  There was something new on every hole!"

Jay:  How about that hole where the green was completely surrounded by sand?

Mom:  "Which one it seemed like they all were surrounded by sand!  And the par threes...that 17th hole..."

They play munis so that was an early birthday present for dad...

[Bart Bradley]

I have played Caledonia twice and have truly enjoyed it both times....I was disappointed with the 9th hole, however...

The lack of housing, condition and overall experience were outstanding.

It is my second favorite course in Myrtle...

Glad they liked it too.

[Michael Whitaker]

Oh, the sand was terribly hard!  And it was everywhere!  That last hole was something else.  But how beautiful and interesting.  There was something new on every hole!"

Don't send them to True Blue! They'll think they are in the Arabian Desert.  

[Joe Bausch]

My group of hackers, I say that lovingly, find Caledonia to be fantastic.  And I do as well.  It is one of the best Aunt Myrtle courses, IMO.

Now, my group of hackers just hates True Blue, but I love it.  It is more difficult than Caledonia by far, and that is what I think turns off many visiting Myrtle.

[igrowgrass]

Caledonia was the best course we played on our trip to Myrtle Beach.  
The chowder/gumbo at the turn is amazing!  Following our round, we sat on the porch for a couple of hours drinking beer, applauding great shots, good company, and just soaking in the atmosphere and experience of Caldeonia.

[A.G._Crockett]

My group of hackers, I say that lovingly, find Caledonia to be fantastic.  And I do as well.  It is one of the best Aunt Myrtle courses, IMO.

Now, my group of hackers just hates True Blue, but I love it.  It is more difficult than Caledonia by far, and that is what I think turns off many visiting Myrtle.

Joe,
What tees is your group playing at True Blue?  Most golfers make a huge mistake there and go to the second set of tees, which is still 6700 yds., and True Blue is just too hard from that yardage.  From the third set, which is about 6400.  From that distance, TB is much, much, much more playable and enjoyable, even for low handicappers.  Tee selection there probably makes more difference than any course I've ever played.

Remember that Caledonia is only about 6500 from the tips, so from the second set of tees it seems to many to be much easier than True Blue.  At the same yardage, Caledonia isn't easier.

If you're playing the 3rd set at TB already, ignore this!

Jay,
I'm glad your parents liked Caledonia.  It is a special place that kind of transcends what you shot that day. Just a beautiful spot on God's earth, and a great golf course in the deal!  But it IS deceptively difficult.

[Jay Flemma]

Update:  Last night my mom made me spit iced tea on my lap top.

I was telling them about Mike and Forrest and my mom says "yes, I remember Furry Fozler.  Tell him I said to make the par threes shorter!"

It took me twenty minutes to stop laughing.  As they said in "Four Rooms" I think that's a new business card!"

Bart, so what IS your favorite course in NB?  You have me curious.

Mike, you're right.  Sending them to True Blue first might have been much, but they liked Kelly Blake Moran's work at The Hideout and they really really really love golf (in my mom's case sometimes 27 holes a day!) so they are more inclined to try and like new things.  They play PUNY munis all the time so getting to play a nice course is a rare and wonderful treat for them.  Dad's played Shinny once and Winged Foot once as part of a "Judge's Outing" years ago when they would make all the judges come to Westchester for continuing legal education, but poor mom's best have been either The Yahnundasis (Travis, New Hartford, NY), Leatherstocking and Seven Oaks (which I think is an 8 hole wonder and ten holes of crap.)

I am tempted to send them to Tobacco Road next...maybe Beechtree.  They are really not scared of anything except trying new things.  But then once they try them, they like them.  I'll also set them up at Bulls Bay one time, I think they'd have a ball there.  Who knows?  Maybe they can have dinner with Heidi and Furry.

Royal new kent might be a bit much.  Dad taught my mom to play at The Concord Hotel (The Monster) and she got really good when she was younger, but tennis elbow in BOTH elbows ruined her swing and she's never been the same player since.

Which do you guys think - should I send them to Royal New Kent or Tobacco Road?  ***Note*** Dad won't fly, so anything off the eastern seaboard is out.  And it has to be on the way from "Utica to Hilton Head" and back, they won't take any other vacation.  Infact, barring two trips to Florida in the last two years, they took the same golf vacation FORTY-FOUR CONSECUTIVE TIMES - PALMETTO DUNES TWICE A YEAR.  Gag me with a spoon! (the forty four times playing the same thing part.)

Oh, one more weird thing.  My mom said she found Caledonia long.  I understand a man saying that because there are so few par-5s, but (and I don;t have the card in front of me) is it also long for women?

Charlie, yes, TB got softened.  I never played it the old way, but I remember wondering what all the hullabaloo was.  I think its just back then we were preconditioned and afraid of new things. (not GCA).

[Dan Boerger]

Jay - Great stuff ... and I can really relates as I have fond memories of taking my Utica-based Dad to Aronimink, St. Davids and a few other Philly courses.

I think Tobacco Road and Tot Hill Farm, given your love for Stranz, might be right on.

[Jay Flemma]

Dan, do you think Tot Hill might be too much for them?  They're 84 and 73...I mean Tobacco Raod...that 9th hole is murder.  Forrest Fezler...excuse me "Furry Fozler" said he had to get MIke to actually soften it up quite a bit so his 86 year old mom could play it...

[A.G._Crockett]

Jay,
I would think the Tot Hill would be a bit easier than the Road based on how you describe your parents.  

One of the very few valid criticisms of the Road that I've heard is that the difference between the course rating (relatively low) and the slope (relatively high) reflects the fact that it is not difficult for the good golfer, but can murder the lesser player.  

That is NOT to say that your parents are not proficient, but if your mom found Caledonia to be long, then the Road might be a bit much; lots of forced carries, etc.  Tot Hill, while not as good a golf course, might be a bit more user-friendly that TR, IMO.

That said, if they like trying cool new stuff, forget everything I just wrote and send them to the Road.  There is nothing like it for coolness!

[Andy Hughes]

Jay, good stuff, and kudos to your parents.

Sounds like Tobacco Road and the RNK are the ones for them. Who cares if #9 is too much up that hill? If 18 at Caledonia was too hard and they liked it anyway for the reasons stated, then they'll love TR and RNK.

[Jason Connor]

Caldonia is probably my favorite course on Pawleys Island.

I love Heritage layout, but the houses there vs. none at Caledonia may give Caledonia the edge.

And I much prefer Caledonia to True Blue.  I just fell in love with the place my first time through.

[Jay Flemma]

You know guys I wonder if the fact that they played the Monster so often made then have a tolerance for "envelope pushing designs."  Think about it for a second...what made The Monster stand out is that it was DIFFERENT, grabbed your attention...was something you never saw on that scale before...had an identity...Caledonia - while a different look and feel - is also a success on a big scale, commands attention and has tough over the top hazards - dont tell me for one second those bunkers aren't tough.  I know...I had a day in hell in then the first time I played it.  I didn't have my sand wedge and needed "a camel, a tourniquet and a priest" that day.  Mom and dad are right, the bunkers - like TSN - are a tough test.  13 bit me good, I still have scars and I dont even wanna talk about 17.

But I wonder if Playing the Monster conditioned them to get used to things that were different.  After all...they liked KBM too!

A.G.  and Hughesy, I think what I'll do is play the percentages and see which is closest to the route they take down.  They were in Myrtle and I hadda move heaven and earth to get them to drive to Pawleys Island...this is, of course, after they drive all the way down there, then my mother says "all the way to Pawley's Island! That's almost an hour!"

I hadda be on top of them all week just to make sure they showed up...then of course they have a great time.  I guess it all part of "I don't wanna be a burden."  Happily, Mom likes Williamsburg, so I'll offer RNK and there's resistance, I'll switch to Beechtree and try softening them up for Tobacco Road next time.

Nevertheless, I can't wait to fly down and - for the first time in 24 years - actually play with them in S.C. at...drum roll please...BULL'S BAY.  I'd love to hear what they'd have to say about 2 and 13!

[Bart Bradley]

Update:  Last night my mom made me spit iced tea on my lap top.


Bart, so what IS your favorite course in NB?  You have me curious.

Ok, Jay, my favorite course in Myrtle is The Dunes.  I found it challenging and well designed with memorable holes and was playing incredibly hard and fast when I played it.  Although at "The Beach" it somehow reminded me of many great Parkland courses that I have played...Maybe someone else can tell me why it seemed so much like LA CC -North....I couldn't put my finger on exactly why I felt the two were somehow similar....And you, what is your favorite??

Thanks for the interesting post,

Bart

[Jay Flemma]

Bart, I liked The Dunes...it was a fun, nice affordable day.  Its no caledonia, but it was a good, fun low impact round. and it was nice to play a course that had a nice history.  Its less campy than alot of the stuff in MB.

Honestly?  My favorite truly is Caledonia.  I've made four trips down there to play as much as possible and for me it goes:

Caledonia
True Blue
The Dunes
The Wizard
Everything else.

[Jamey Bryan]

Jay, I hate to rain on a parade but........

I love Caledonia for it's scenery and atmosphere, but no course can (for me) be great without good finishing holes.  Caledonia's 9 and 18 are, in my opinion, Stranz's worst holes anywhere (I'd also say that sets a pretty high bar).

I'd have to think a bit before I could rank my "best" MB courses, but True Blue and Dunes would be there....  I don't think Caledonia would be.

Jamey

[Joe Bausch]

Jay, I hate to rain on a parade but........

I love Caledonia for it's scenery and atmosphere, but no course can (for me) be great without good finishing holes.  Caledonia's 9 and 18 are, in my opinion, Stranz's worst holes anywhere (I'd also say that sets a pretty high bar).

I'd have to think a bit before I could rank my "best" MB courses, but True Blue and Dunes would be there....  I don't think Caledonia would be.

Jamey

I'll agree that 9 at Caledonia is a real letdown, bordering on awful.  I don't like 18 that much either, but I'm not sure I would characterize it as a bad hole.  Just not a great finishing hole, IMO.

[Jay Flemma]

Jamey and Joe,

You're not raining on a parade, I understand where you're coming from.  9 is not a "showstopper" and 18 is an acquired taste, but I have a soft spot for it despite taking an 11 the first time I played it...not only did I go inthe water, but I went in a flower bed by the parking lot!  When told Strantz about it he said "Flower bed?" and then he turned to Fezler and said "where'd we put a flower bed on 18?" and Fuzzy...sorry "Furry" who replied...after a pregnant pause..."Dont you know?"

Where you hit one where the architects dont even remember, its a bad shot.

I just think that 9 isn't a strong hole as opposed to thinking its a weak one...but there's an awful lot there that's really, really good!

Charley:we all have our "secret shame" courses...I happen to like coeur d'alene

[Jay Flemma]

Charlie, I think comparing Tobacco Road and RNk is like comparing a chateaubriand with a double porterhouse...yes, the road is the king of strantz courses...even a little better than the phenomenal Monterey Peninsula Country Club...but RNK is triumphant as well...there isn't a weak hole.  And its important in Strantz lore because that's where he held his yearly matches with the Royal County Down staff in a ryder cup style match.

[A.G._Crockett]

Wow!  You guys are a tough crowd!

#9 at Caledonia is a cool little hole, IMO.  There is nothing wrong with a drop-shot par 3, and it has a very interesting green complex.  If it suffers, it is only because:
     a. it finishes a side
     b. it is pretty far from the 8th green, and gives the feeling of being an afterthought because of that.

As to #18, what the heck is wrong with it?  I'm not sure what it lacks, even as a "finisher"; it is plenty demanding w/o being impossible, and requires two well-judged and executed shots rather than brute strength.  What's missing?

Charlie Dusic,
Don't apologize for liking the Thistle.  It is a good golf course, especially the two original nines; the 3rd nine is a little shoehorned.  Tim Cate's stuff is good, I think; try Tiger's Eye if you haven't already.  I haven't seen his new one at Ocean Ridge, but he builds good golf courses.

[Andy Hughes]

"but RNK is triumphant as well...there isn't a weak hole"

Jay, I'm right there with you on Strantz, as well as RNK.

What is your take on 17 and 18 at RNK?   My issue with 18 was that it was just too tough for some of my friends--we had moderate wind, and with water front and back we deposited our fair share to the golfing gods.

[Joe Bausch]

Regarding #9 at Caledonia:  I don't remember that being a drop-shot at all.  Isn't it flat as a board?

Upon further review, I was probably a bit harsh on #18.  Heck, I birdied 17 and 18 the last time I was there to win a match in our group's Ryder Cup style tourney, so I must be good, right?    My request for that hole would be that it is longer.

[Mike_Cirba]

Near Murrells Inlet, Love Caledonia and most of True Blue (except the final few holes), but for the life of me I'll never understand anyone who thinks Heritage is anything but a putrid train-wreck of architecture.

Tom Fazio's Wacchesaw Plantation is a good course as well, with Strantz being the lead design associate, I believe.

[A.G._Crockett]

Regarding #9 at Caledonia:  I don't remember that being a drop-shot at all.  Isn't it flat as a board?

Upon further review, I was probably a bit harsh on #18.  Heck, I birdied 17 and 18 the last time I was there to win a match in our group's Ryder Cup style tourney, so I must be good, right?    My request for that hole would be that it is longer.

Joe,
You're right; I misused drop-shot.  I was thinking tennis, with #9 only playing around 90 yds. or so.  It IS flat, and we generally mean a greatly elevated tee in golf when we use that term.

Still, I think it is a cool little hole that would be much-loved IF it were not a side-finisher, and IF it wasn't off all by itself, giving the feeling that it is shoehorned.  But it is those things, and I recognize the problems that creates.  It is NOT a bad golf hole, though.

As to #18, longer which way?  If the approach was longer, the green would have to be much different; that green is built for short-iron approaches, and it is a VERY demanding green if you miss it at all.  
On the other hand, if the drive were longer, you still end up with a short iron approach if the drive was hit well, so I don't think that would change the character much.  
I think it would be a great match-play finisher; your birdie to win experience is probably pretty frequent, and bogey to lose would pretty easy to do as well.

[Joe Bausch]

More 18 at C'donia:  I still think it would be nice if the back tees were 400+, not ~380.  I'd prefer a tough finishing hole where the driver is almost required.  Yes, if you bust a shot right now from the tips 270 yards, you are at the end of the fairway with a slightly longer shot than if you just hit something 250.  But putting a tee say 430 out (don't know if they own that land behind the current tees) sure would make people pucker.  

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()