[Matt_Ward]

Someone asked me the other day to list top quality designs that didn't require extensive collateral or your first born to play. The person asking wanted to have a listing of courses unique from a design perspective and at the same time sensitive to one's wallet.

Candidly, affordability needs to be a major element because so few people have the personal network or resources to play many of the exclusive private clubs or even the high-prived CCFAD types.

The benchmark would be less than $100 during peak season time -- and the cart fee would also be included within the calculations if it was mandated in order to play. I've IDed my top ten with a few others that just missed but were included as honorable mention types. No doubt there will be dissent and I look forward to hearing back from those who strongly disagree. I might even add a few more but the ones listed were courses I thoroughly enjoyed.
 
Again --
 
The stipulations are as follows ...

1). Bonafide Public Courses

2). Opened in the last ten years (1998-2008)

3). No more than $99 green fees charged during peak times and includes cart fee if mandated.
 
In no specific order ...


 
* The Trophy Club
Lebanon, IN
Green Fee Max = $65
Cart Included in Fee
Architect: Tim Liddy

Gets little ink nationally - some even think Purgatory in Noblesville should be thought of as the better layout. I don't. Purgatory is fine in many spots but it's overkill with bunkers to the max. Liddy did so well on a nearly flat piece of property. The challenges are there -- but never do you get the hard edge look that his mentor Pete Dye was famous for.

The par-4 13th is one of the best two-shot public holes in the USA and that's only one example of what's there. Why The Trophy Club doesn't flay higher baffles me.


* Mines Golf Course
Grand Rapids, MI
Green Fee Max = $36
Cart fee (optional) = $13 per person
Architect: Mike DeVries

What Mike DeVries did for private golf with The Kingsley Club -- also in MI -- he has followed-up with a winning effort for the public side with Mines. So much of MI public golf is repetitive ho-hum layouts -- some of them are bigger ticket costs but likely most of them could not hold a candle to what you get with Mines. Any trek to MI to sample public golf there must include a visit here.

 
* The Harvester
Rhodes, IA
Green Fee Max = $89
Cart Included w GF
Architect: Keith Foster

Never really understood why Harvester doesn't receive even more attention. I guess the location in Iowa has really flown below most golf radar screens. Very demanding course but at no time is it a "sink or swim" type ultimatum type course. Foster did really solid work with The Quarry in San Antonio and Haymaker in Steamboat Springs but each of those two courses does have some weak holes in the mix. I didn't really see many holes there that one could classify as being miscast.

 
* Wild Horse
Gothenburg, NE
Green Fee Max = $38
Cart (optional) = $13 per person
Architect: Dave Axland & Dan Proctor

The layout has been hailed by many people and rightly so. Not overly produced with so many extras thrown haphazardly into the mixture. Wild Horse is the quintessential example of how minimalism can work wonders at a very reasonable fee. Why there aren't more such courses astounds me. Maybe a few architects should trek to Gothenburg with their pads and pencils to take some long overdue notes on what golf really needs.


* Black Mesa
La Mesilla, NM
Green Fee Max = $67
Cart (optional) = $20
Architect: Baxter Spann

As many on GCA likely know, one of my personal favorite courses. Spann was blessed with a tremendous site and he skillfully routed the course so that at no time does mediocrity set in with a smattering of so-so holes. The short par-4's -- the 7th and 14th are simply delicious items to overcome. The blind tee shot at #10 is one of the more demanding shots you can play from any public golf hole in the USA. The scenery is breathtaking both on and off the course. Spann also crafted green sites that can be quite finicky but at no time do they border on miniature golf fiascos -- although some might see #16 as one such example. I don't.

Black Mesa requires solid driving of the ball -- powering the ball alone means nothing there. High desert golf that matches the powerful appeal of Santa Fe -- 20 miles to the southeast. Now another reason to visit there.

 
* The Rawls Course at Texas Tech
Lubbock, TX
Green Fee Max = $50
Cart (optional) = $14 per person
Architect: Tom Doak

Doak didn't bring inexpensive public golf to life in Texas -- I really liked what Ken Dye did years before that with Painted Dunes Desert GC in El Paso, but that layout was allowed to fall a few notches because of a lack of real care. A pity indeed.

The Rawls Course provided a much needed shot in the arm for The Lone Star State. Too much of the golf in Texas is solely focused on the private side and those tied to various gated communities. The Rawls Course clearly shows how Doak could take such a God foresaken piece of land and transform it into a real gem.

Being located in Lubbock can be a tough visit for many -- place the course in the Dallas, Houston or San Antonio areas and it would have garnered even more attention.

I liked plenty of holes there but the short par-3 at 158 yards is one peach of a hole. Plays generally into the wind and when the stick is cut tight to the left you'll need to know how to really hit a fine shot that stays under the breeze and is capable in coming to a quick stop in such a demanding hole position.

 
* GC at Red Rock
Rapid City, SD
Green Fee Max = $49
Cart (optional) = $15
Architect: Ron Farris

Plenty of talk about Dakota golf falls to Links of ND, Hawktree and Bully Pulpit, to name the three main contenders. Red Rock exceeds them all. Architect Ron Farris worked magic on a rolling terrain site and the combination of holes and shot requirements is a good bit better in terms of challenge and range than the other aforementioned courses. Red Rock gets little fanfare but anyone going to see Mount Rushmore -- it's about 10-15 minutes away from the course -- would be wise to stop by and play the layout.

 
* Four Mile Ranch
Canon City, CO
Green Fee Max = $59
Cart (optional) = $15 per person
Architect: Jim Engh

Played the course for the first time this year and was struck by how Engh retained his sense of boldness but this time without the clear repetition of inserting his hands so clearly into the overall picture. Four Mile Ranch is blessed with a site that has enough roll but no so much as to require man's hand to be so clearly seen. Engh has tempered the desire to shape things to such a heavy hand. Does he still do it? Sure. But's it not so over-the-top as some, myself included, have mentioned at various times witgh different projects. At Four Mile Ranch you get a layout that rewards shotmaking to a high degree. The green contours are so refreshing with the likes of the par-3 12th with its reverse Biaritz green, to name just one example. The par-4 5th with its ocean wave green is also well done. Engh learned from his past works and his improvements -- while not sacrificing his core creativitity - arein full bloom at Four Mile Ranch.

 
* Lederach
Harleysville, PA
Green Fee Max = $75
Cart (included w green fee)
Architect: Kelly Blake Moran

The major contribution of Lederach by Moran is how it changed the bleak and rather sad level of Pennsy public golf. To be fair, Moran added a good bit to the rather empty canvass of Keystone available golf when he brought forward Morgan Hill - located just 45-60 minutes away a few years before Lederach. Unfortunately, Morgan Hill is more a testament to the ability of an architect to overcome a very demanding and difficult site but the true capacity of Moran to deliver came with a site not as overall severe, but one that would require a clever routing and a plentitude of holes to keep you guessing. Lederach is a bold and clear departure from the dreadful public golf that inhabits a state where the private side if light years beyond. Pennsy public golf still has miles and miles to go but I credit Moran for bringing forward two layouts -- most notably Lederach -- with a blue print that will start the climb for public golf there.

 
* Rustic Canyon
Moorpark, CA
Green Fee Max = $60
Cart (optional) = $13 per person
Architect: Gil Hanse w Geoff S and Jim W

A winning oasis in a graveyard area filled with over-priced and over-shaped and over-hyped public course options. Plenty of details are faced when playing Rustic Canyon and the site was used to great success. The aspect at Rustic that fascinates me is the constant desire to switch the pacing of the course as you play each hole. Has much changed since Rustic Canyon entered the scene. Not much from my visits to SoCal land -- although Barona Creek is one real plus in the greater SD area. The big time difference between them -- Barona on a weekend / holiday time frame costs roughly three times more. 


 
Honorable Mention ...

Lakota Canyon Ranch
New Castle, CO
Green Fee Max = $95
Cart (included w green fee)
Architect: Jim Engh
I've played the course a few times and still enjoy what it offers. Fortunately, Engh was able to get a site that was not as severe as his previous effort at Sanctuary but he crafted a design that was a bit more complex than what he did with Redlands Mesa.

I really love the closing stretch of holes at Lakota -- the par-4 16th is one of Engh's best par-4's that I have played - ditto his work with the closing hole -- a superb risk and reward type hole. The only issue is the overshaping at the par-3 17th -- which sports a predictable Engh heavy hand with the terrain to get a certain finished look. Lakota personifies fun to the max. The uphill par-5 4th is one of the best three-shot holes (for most humans) you will play anywhere. Lakota Canyon sent a clear statement that Engh could deliver the goods -- the issue would be if he could tone down the clear fingerprints he leaves on courses. Four Mile Ranch demonstrates that clear evolution in my mind.

Old Works
Anaconda, MT
Green Fee Max = $50
Cart (optional) = $14 per player
Architect: Jack Nicklaus
Have to give credit to Nicklaus and his team credit for taking on a project that usually would fall to some other person / group. ARCO made the right move from a PR perspective in getting a golf course built on a former superfund site, if memory serves. The layout by Nicklaus lacks a number of details one would see with other Jack layouts -- e.g., the bunkering is quite ordinary and a number of the greens are extremely subtle to say the least. Yet, despite the limitations of a few bells and whistles elements, Old Works is still challenging and it did something Jack had previously avoided with many of his other designs - doing a quality public project in which the green fees would be very modest. Old Works is not a home run from the design side of things but it still impresses me with what was done there and how Nicklaus went outside his usual box of design choices to provide something of quality for the masses.

Paa-Ko-Ridge
Sandia, NM
Green Fee Max = $79
Cart fee = $20 per person
Architect: Ken Dye

Spring Creek
Gord Le, VA
Green Fee Max = $75
Cart fee = $20 per person
Architect: Ed Carton
 
Rochelle Ranch
Rawlins, WY
Green Fee Max = $28
Cart fee (optional) = $25
Architect: Ken Kavanaugh

Devil's Thumb Golf Course
Delta, CO
Green Fee Max = $35
Cart (optional) = $12 for 18 holes
Architect: Rick Phelps

I might add a few more as well ...

[Sean_A]

Matt

It would seem you have a wonderful mix of styles listed.  I have only seem one of the courses listed, Lederach, and I came away very impressed.  Could you talk about a few features which give Lederach that extra something?  I know for me, the bunkering was incredible.  I don't think I have ever come across with so few bunkers that seemed like so many more.  Each and every bunker must be accounted for and Kelly did this wonderfully at Lederach.

I would also be curious as to why The Road didn't make the list.

Ciao

[Scott Sander]

Matt-

It's terrific to see someone praise Trophy Club so highly.  It's so far out of the spotlight that it's easy to overlook in Indiana, let alone in the national scene.  (If you love 13, then perhaps you have managed to divine the right line off the tee.  In a dozen rounds there, I may have lucked into it once.  What a visual trick Liddy accomplishes there.  And what a green!)  For my money the strength of the course is the par 5's.   Or maybe the backside par 3's.  Or... ?

In the same vein, I'd nominate Murphy Creek in Aurora, Colorado.  I'm hopelessly biased on the matter, but the course requires so much thought that it's a delight.  There is ONE tee shot (#16) that is tee it up and whale away.  The rest -including the par 3's- offer choices and demand decisions. 

Glad you mentioned Engh - he has been a stalwart in the affordable arena.  I'd include Redlands Mesa, which still checks in under $100.  I'm not as enamored of Fossil Trace, but some are - and it's very inexpensive realitive to the quality.

TPC at Deere Run is a stunning piece of property and a very good layout - especially the closing stretch.  A pucker par 3, a reachable par 5, a thinking-man's 4 - great stuff.  And as TPC courses go it's ridiculously cheap.

My experiences are limited - so many more may trump these.  But for their areas these are all top notch affordable offerings.
 

[Mark Bourgeois]

Pinnacle Point
Mossel Bay, WC
$86 peak, includes cart plus hamburger, chips or candy bar and drink at the turn
Architect: Peter Matkovich

A cartball affair owing in part to the severity of the terrain but given the designer's apparent attempt to offer as many "great" holes as possible at the expense of routing integrity, Matkovich in his defense got the execution right and delivered on the promise / tradeoff.  And it doesn't feel like a random collection of shots.

Perhaps the world's greatest collection of fun and thrilling shots, the question is whether the chance to hit those shots again is strong enough to entice a return, to outweigh the cartball / routing issues.

To wit:
1 shot akin to Dell hole, or at least Cruden 7th
1 Pebble 7th
1 Rye 4th (but w second shot to infinity green, with ocean behind)
2 Kapalua 18 tee shots
1 Cypress Point 16 shot (complete with bailout option)
and 2 Biarritz(!!)

And more downhill approach shots from wedge to long iron distance than I care to count.

Note: course proper does not qualify as "great," but so many will be blinded to the architecture - three plays minimum to see past the setting and individual shots - but this is beside the point, as the ocean, whales, dolphins, prehistoric caves (150,000 years old), and rich diversity of songbirds and plant life should for all but the dead of heart more than make up for the sacrifice of architectural integrity.

In sum, a Kauri type course that exceeds in the execution and may well be the archetype for its kinds, the course that at last proves the exception to the rules of architectural integrity. We'll see...

Mark

[Steve_ Shaffer]

I'm not sure of peak season rates, but Vista Verde in AZ is a contender.

[Keith Williams]

Somewhere, somehow Mike Young's Longshadow ought to be mentioned in this thread.

Keith.

[Jason Topp]

Matt - I agree with all on your list that I have played (Harvester, Wild Horse, Rustic Canyon).  I suggest you consider adding one or both of Brauer's Minnesota courses:

Quarry at Giant's Ridge - peak $89
Wilderness - Fortune Bay - Peak $90


I would defintely rank both courses ahead of Paa Ko Ridge and Old Works and probably ahead of Rustic Canyon (although the courses are so different it is like comparing apples and oranges).

I would also consider Big Fish in Hayward, Wisconsin.  Again, I would put the course well ahead of Old Works and slightly ahead of Paa Ko Ridge. I'm not sure I would knock out any of the three I am familiar with on your list for it.

[Matt_Ward]

Steve:

I'd have included Vista Verde because I really liked what Ken Kavanaugh did there. In so many ways, it is a good bit more detailed and intricate in its design than Saguaro by C&C at We-Ko-Pa.

However ...

I believe the peak rates will be over $100 during the main season. For that reason I placed Rochelle Ranch in Wyoming as an alternative although the Rawlins layout doesn't have all the elements you see with the AZ-based course.

Keith Williams:

I've not played Long Shadow so I will keep that in mind -- I plan on visiting my alma mater at South Carolina later this Fall and will make a special side trip to see it. Others have said positive things about it.

Jason:

Thanks. I have not been to either of the two courses and you mentioned but others have opined on them and feel the way you do. Likely, either or even both of them would make such a listing because of the acclaim they have received.

Hard to say which courses would get bumped but I would say of the tn I listed there are a few that are a bit less than the other others. Paa-Ko Ridge and Old Works would likely be the first ones that come to mind although as I mentioned -- Ken Dye and Jack Nicklaus did solid work with both and they each have a unique story and contribution to quality design and affordbaility.

My leaving out of Minnesota golf is more about not having been to have played the two courses you mentioned. It's my goal to rectify that situation sometime in '09.

In regards to Big Fish -- I walked the property when it was being constructed during a separate visit I made to play Whistling Straits. I liked what I saw but the level for competition to make a final top ten would seem from what I saw only -- I always like to play to confirm my thoughts - to be just on the outside. At minimum it would be an honorable mention.

Scott S:

I've played TPC at Deere Run and while it's good it comes in behind -- by a decent margin -- to the likes of Harvester and Trophy Club.

In regards to Redands Mesa -- it's a fine course and deserves ink but Engh's evolution of as an architect of quality and affordable layouts really accelerated with the likes of Lakota Canyon Ranch and now with Four Mile Ranch.

Sean:

I really have enjoyed seeing the evolution of what Moran has done. Many in my neck of the woods were ga-ga over his work at Hawk Pointe in NJ -- a public course initially that has since become private. There are holes at HP in which the greens were rather unique -- a common element of what Moran is capable in producing -- but the tee-to-green dynamics of many of the holes were rather similar in terms of style and challenge. That has since changed with him getting future projects. His work at Morgan Hill demonstrated an uncanny ability - similar in way to Engh -- to handle a demanding site and still get good and fun golf out of it. Morgan Hill has a few flaws -- I'm not a fan of the dropshot par-3 on the inner half but all in all, it's a wild Indiana Jones adventure and for what the bar for public golf had been in Pennsy it is Moran who really has shaken the dull and uneventful glass of public golf and provided two designs there that hopefully will be impetus for others to follow.

Lederach is clearly miles and miles beyond the junkfood public golf levels I have previously encountered when coming to Pennsy.

You hit the nail squarely on the head with Moran's ability to get the most out of solitary bunkers which are uniquely positioned. The par-5 3rd is a great example - the split fairway must be negotiated -- either to the left or right side. The hole that precedes it is even grander because it uses far less -- you need to shape a tee shot from right-to-left but you can't go too far left or some serious issues will arise. The green contours are once again brought to life in such a fine fashion by Moran. When I look at the listing of other Pennsy public courses I have played the surfaces usually encountered are nothing more than big flat circular discs that have as much life as five-day old Pepsi.

Sean, keep in mind the overall routing at Lederach -- you are CONSTANTLY FACING different angles and wind directions. This isn't simply one hole following another in a straight line. If anything, I have been amazed at the complexity in how Moran has done this -- his work at Morgan Hill was about conquering the demands of Mother Nature -- here at Lederach the story goes one step beyond that because the overall routing and change of pace holes you face with each new situation is really enthralling for me.

The finishing holes on both sides are also well done. The 9th -- although quite short at just under 380 yards-- and the 18th at just under 330 yards are both well done although each comes from different angles from nearby teeing areas.

You also have a bit of controversy with the 11th hole. I know some people are not fans of it but I like the edginess to it and how it commands your attention and respect when you step up to the tee box. No doubt the 11th was really shaped to a final product and some may make the fair point that it's really overdone. I can see the point but I disagree only because you are left with a myriad of options that make playing the hole so much fun.

One last thing -- Moran did a fine job with adding a demanding par-4 -- not as the closer but with the 17th. Think how demanding that one bunker is that needs to be cleared when standing on the tee box. If the wind is in one's face the challenge is as demanding as any you can find when playing there. The final hole, on the other hand, is a short one but the green makes three-putting a reality unless you are quite close with the approach.

Moran designed Lederach to reflect so much of classic golf concepts. It isn't your basic Pennsy muni or lame CCFAD course that is more hype than real heroics. I'm looking forward to his next project in the public domain -- clearly Pennsy public golf will never be the same for me.

[Adam Clayman]

Matt, Since you've recently made it clear that a course with maintenance issues should not be rated I'd remove Rochelle Ranch from your lists.

Yes, the architecture there is good stuff, but without grass on the fairways, people might not appreciate the recommendation. 

[Kalen Braley]

I would second Murphy Creek as an honorable mention.

As well as Circling Raven in Worley, ID

[Ken Moum]

I can't honestly say where I think it should rate, but Brauer's Colbert Hills gets a lot of attention around here, and it has a peak rate of $79.

And there are often deals to be had.

K

[Dan_Callahan]

Not surprising—but definitely depressing—that not a single course in New England shows up on your list.

[Tim Gavrich]

Wintonbury Hills?  About $85 maximum.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

Matt

Vista Verde peak rates will be $90. However, the big news is that they are offering a season pass for $2500 that buys 50 rounds including a cart! The pass is not limited to the owner so that guests can play for the same rate. A temporary clubhouse will be open in early December. The infrastructure is still under construction and the housing construction has not started.

[Greg Clark]

I believe a strong contender for this list would be Pine Dunes in Frankston, TX.  The course opened in 2001 and has a peak green fee with cart of $79.  Can be played during the week for $49, and is just a great golf experience.

Since Matt mentioned Foster, 2 other of his Texas offerings would just miss qualification.  Texas Star and The Bandit both opened I believe in '97 and both have peak rates of under $100.  Both are very good values.

[Andy Hughes]

No love for Strantz? 

[Sean_A]

Steve:

I'd have included Vista Verde because I really liked what Ken Kavanaugh did there. In so many ways, it is a good bit more detailed and intricate in its design than Saguaro by C&C at We-Ko-Pa.

However ...

I believe the peak rates will be over $100 during the main season. For that reason I placed Rochelle Ranch in Wyoming as an alternative although the Rawlins layout doesn't have all the elements you see with the AZ-based course.

Keith Williams:

I've not played Long Shadow so I will keep that in mind -- I plan on visiting my alma mater at South Carolina later this Fall and will make a special side trip to see it. Others have said positive things about it.

Jason:

Thanks. I have not been to either of the two courses and you mentioned but others have opined on them and feel the way you do. Likely, either or even both of them would make such a listing because of the acclaim they have received.

Hard to say which courses would get bumped but I would say of the tn I listed there are a few that are a bit less than the other others. Paa-Ko Ridge and Old Works would likely be the first ones that come to mind although as I mentioned -- Ken Dye and Jack Nicklaus did solid work with both and they each have a unique story and contribution to quality design and affordbaility.

My leaving out of Minnesota golf is more about not having been to have played the two courses you mentioned. It's my goal to rectify that situation sometime in '09.

In regards to Big Fish -- I walked the property when it was being constructed during a separate visit I made to play Whistling Straits. I liked what I saw but the level for competition to make a final top ten would seem from what I saw only -- I always like to play to confirm my thoughts - to be just on the outside. At minimum it would be an honorable mention.

Scott S:

I've played TPC at Deere Run and while it's good it comes in behind -- by a decent margin -- to the likes of Harvester and Trophy Club.

In regards to Redands Mesa -- it's a fine course and deserves ink but Engh's evolution of as an architect of quality and affordable layouts really accelerated with the likes of Lakota Canyon Ranch and now with Four Mile Ranch.

Sean:

I really have enjoyed seeing the evolution of what Moran has done. Many in my neck of the woods were ga-ga over his work at Hawk Pointe in NJ -- a public course initially that has since become private. There are holes at HP in which the greens were rather unique -- a common element of what Moran is capable in producing -- but the tee-to-green dynamics of many of the holes were rather similar in terms of style and challenge. That has since changed with him getting future projects. His work at Morgan Hill demonstrated an uncanny ability - similar in way to Engh -- to handle a demanding site and still get good and fun golf out of it. Morgan Hill has a few flaws -- I'm not a fan of the dropshot par-3 on the inner half but all in all, it's a wild Indiana Jones adventure and for what the bar for public golf had been in Pennsy it is Moran who really has shaken the dull and uneventful glass of public golf and provided two designs there that hopefully will be impetus for others to follow.

Lederach is clearly miles and miles beyond the junkfood public golf levels I have previously encountered when coming to Pennsy.

You hit the nail squarely on the head with Moran's ability to get the most out of solitary bunkers which are uniquely positioned. The par-5 3rd is a great example - the split fairway must be negotiated -- either to the left or right side. The hole that precedes it is even grander because it uses far less -- you need to shape a tee shot from right-to-left but you can't go too far left or some serious issues will arise. The green contours are once again brought to life in such a fine fashion by Moran. When I look at the listing of other Pennsy public courses I have played the surfaces usually encountered are nothing more than big flat circular discs that have as much life as five-day old Pepsi.

Sean, keep in mind the overall routing at Lederach -- you are CONSTANTLY FACING different angles and wind directions. This isn't simply one hole following another in a straight line. If anything, I have been amazed at the complexity in how Moran has done this -- his work at Morgan Hill was about conquering the demands of Mother Nature -- here at Lederach the story goes one step beyond that because the overall routing and change of pace holes you face with each new situation is really enthralling for me.

The finishing holes on both sides are also well done. The 9th -- although quite short at just under 380 yards-- and the 18th at just under 330 yards are both well done although each comes from different angles from nearby teeing areas.

You also have a bit of controversy with the 11th hole. I know some people are not fans of it but I like the edginess to it and how it commands your attention and respect when you step up to the tee box. No doubt the 11th was really shaped to a final product and some may make the fair point that it's really overdone. I can see the point but I disagree only because you are left with a myriad of options that make playing the hole so much fun.

One last thing -- Moran did a fine job with adding a demanding par-4 -- not as the closer but with the 17th. Think how demanding that one bunker is that needs to be cleared when standing on the tee box. If the wind is in one's face the challenge is as demanding as any you can find when playing there. The final hole, on the other hand, is a short one but the green makes three-putting a reality unless you are quite close with the approach.

Moran designed Lederach to reflect so much of classic golf concepts. It isn't your basic Pennsy muni or lame CCFAD course that is more hype than real heroics. I'm looking forward to his next project in the public domain -- clearly Pennsy public golf will never be the same for me.

Thanks for the reply Matt.  I have no idea how Lederach fits into the big scheme of sub $100 public golf, but I like it a awful lot.  I especially like the variety of the front 9.  The back is probably just as varied, though I think it is a bit more sketchy.  I am not keen on 10-12 & 16, though I think #12 is a tee issue - its better to move up tee and make the hole much shorter.  I don't like the confided aspect of the drive on 10 nor the tree by the green.  #11 is just far too narrow and the bailout leaves an impossible approach to that green.  #16 is wierd in that I believe there should be a collar leading to the front of the green.  There is no way to bounce one in when the pin is up front.  I think the green runs away from the tee so a kick should be an option.  Having said that, 13, 14, 15, 17 & 18 are very good.

I see that The Road charges over $100.  Its funny, I don't recall ever paying that much. 

One course that folks seem to like a load and hasn't yet been mentioned is Angels Landing.  Where does this course place?

Ciao

[Matt_Ward]

Greg:

What public course has had more impact with changing the landscape of the Lone Star State in regards to stand alone public courses -- The Rawls Course or Pine Dunes ? Be curious to your comments. Or is my assumption on the Doak layout more about the limitations of what I have personally played that has happened there in the last ten years?

AHughes:

In regards to Strantz you can't add Tobacco Road because it does exceed $100 in peak times during the season. The only other solid alternatives I would think are Royal New Kent and the Stonehouse layouts -- both in VA. Are there others worth considering?

Steve:

I stand corrected -- I'd add Vista Verde to my top tier listings -- make that a total of eleven courses. Rochelle Ranch is a fine layout but what Kavanaugh did there in the desert is exceptional and the rate offered, given the plethora of overpriced alternatives, is a big time bargain to boot.

Dan:

My listing is not some sort of politcal document -- I don't just give away spots because of geographical necessity or political correctness. Keep in mind, since I'm from the northeast I've traveled to the area in question many times over and while there are a few candidates for consideration -- Wintonbury is one of them but in order for a course to make the top ten something else has to fall off.

The candidates from Minnesota that Jason mentioned previously are well known and have a big time following. New England golf is quite seasonal in nature and the public side has been slow to develop because of a short season and the proliferation of top tier private clubs.

kmoum:

Good point on Colbert Hills but have to ask anyone who has played the layout in Manhattan how it stacks up against the two Jeff has done in Minnesota?

Kalen:

Circling Raven is a fine choice but the work John Harbottle did at Palouse Ridge is even better and even more affordable. If you have not played it you should. I'd have to really think twice about an honorable mention for the ID layout.

Adam:

Beg to differ with you - I was just there on my recent visit to the west -- roughly two weeks ago and the place had made some real strides forward on the conditioning front. Adam, let me straighten out any misconceptions you have in my placement of conditioning as an element of evaluation -- it is a secondary consideration -- yes, it does play a role but more of a support function.

[Tim Bert]

I'll second the vote for Longshadow to be included.

[Chris_Clouser]

Matt,

I think your inclusion of Trophy Club is warranted.  There are about 5 courses in the state that could fall into that group that I think are the equal to TC.  I find it funny that you mention the number of bunkers at Purgatory.  Do you know that there are only 4 more bunkers at Purgatory than at Trophy Club?      Liddy just puts a lot of his on the periphery of the hole instead of using them directly in the strategic path of play like Kern did at Purgatory.  But I agree holes like 13 and 16 at PGC do have too many bunkers for my taste.  Also, for Indiana, TC is not flat.  Maybe in other locales, but it is blessed with that ridge in the middle of the property that Liddy ran several holes off of (2, 3, 4 and 11 and 10 to a degree).  Purgatory was not blessed with even that much move land movement. 

I agree with you on 13, but I think 11 might be among the top 5 par fives I have ever seen, public or not.  As for why it doesn't get any national love that is easy...  It's freaking Indiana.  Nobody with any cache ever comes here to play golf.  If they do, their focus is on getting to Crooked Stick or Victoria or schmoozing with Tony George at the Brickyard or only playing Pete Dye courses.  Going to Lebanon, Cicero or Jasper is not on anyone's radar...

[Jed Peters]

I'd look into Keith Foster's Dark Horse in Auburn, CA as well.

VERY good layout, and quite the bargain with the economy the way it is right now.

Peak rates are $79.....including cart.

[Matt_Ward]

Chris:

I hear what you say -- unfortunately, there are way too many people who don't know how GOOD Indiana public golf is on so many levels. For a state with flat land for the most part the quality designs really do shine. Indiana would kick the butt out of any combo of top tier NJ public layouts -- ditto for sure NY and Pennsy COMBINED.

For all the fanfare that MI public golf gets -- the sheer array of top tier public layouts in the Hoosier State would give them a good run for their money. Ditto the Buckeye State.

The issue I have w Purgatory is that the inane looooooooooooooong par-5 13th (?) is just stupid. My God -- planes landing at Indy that overshoot could use the area for a back-up runway. It's overkill for the sake of overkill. Bring the hole down to a 600 yard figure and it works much better.

You are so right on the par-5 11th -- solid hole. I just see the 13th at Trophy as a supreme hole that never lets you easily. I stand corrected on the terrain elements you mentioned for Trophy but in real terms it's still more flat than elevated in just about a number of spots.

Indiana is a fine place for people to visit and play golf. I look forward to playing The Trophy Club again because Liddy gets little attention for such a solid and very affordable layout.

[PCCraig]

A few I have played this year;

Pine Meadow
Mundelein, IL
Green Fee Max = $85
Architect: Flynn / Joe Lee

Purdue University
West Lafayette, IN
Green Fee Max = $60
Architect: Pete Dye

Brown Deer Park
Milwaukee, WI
Green Fee Max = $90
Architect: Packard / Andy North redesign?

[Matt_Ward]

Pat:

Keep in mind the thread started with the premise of public courses OPENING between 1998-2008.

Both Pine Meadow and Brown Deer Park opened well before then.

[J Sadowsky]

Those are all great courses, but very few of them are "really" $100 because of their location.  The difference between paying $100 and $200 for a round is not much if it is already a "destination" place, and so few of those are in metropolitan areas.

For me, a great $100 or less course is one that you can pick up and play on a Saturday after seeing the kids.  And so, to some degree, it's pretty location specific.  I live in the DC area, and for me the best $100 or less public courses built in the last 10 or so years should include metropolitan choices like Laurel Hill in Lorton, VA.

Also, regardless of location, Mattaponi Springs deserves an honorable mention, at least.


(Note: Royal New Kent and Greystone were built in 1997, but otherwise deserves a mention).

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