When is linksland not linksland

[Forrest Richardson]

Sandhills is dunesland, not linksland. It has the elements of great linksland, but is not.

[Neal_Meagher]

Forrest,

You make a good distinction between what may be dunes land and what may be links land.  Yet, to go with the strictest sense of what real links land is, I go back to my original question regarding climate.  Nebraska is another kettle of fish weatherwise from a coastal climate.  

How can one divorce the one from the other?  Isn't the weather patterns of the coast (and I probably mean a cold water body coast) almost more important than the quality of the sand/soil and vegetation that naturally occurs there?

Oh, and stop spreading rumors that I drink wine out of plastic cups.  Bob Huntley may see this and be aghast at such a faux pas.  That was only once, and there was no glass to be found.

[Forrest Richardson]

As I recall it was either a plastic cup or drinking from Perry Dye's cupped hands. I believe you made the right decision.

Yes, of course weather plays a role. But Pebble Beach is not linksland as it does not "possess the characteristics of naturally rolling sand dunes or land features formed by the wind, the ocean and the receding tides." Here (at Pebble) we have perfect weather and the sea, but we have only a hint of land formed by the winds and receeding tides. Of course, nearby we have linksland, such as the dunes at Cypress and Spyglass.

[Tom_Doak]

I'm constantly asked this question and I don't really have a good answer yet, though I generally side against calling most sites true linksland.

To me, the difference between dunesland and linksland is in the grass cover.  True links had a natural cover of fine grasses ... sometimes you see signs in Scotland to the "links," which is not a golf course but a grassy park next to the sea.

That would eliminate Bandon, Sand Hills, Barnbougle, and Neal's land from the equation ... though I have seen one "true links" site this year.

[TEPaul]

Wonderful information on this thread about the distinctions of what should and shouldn't be called true linksland. Surely, most golfers don't know the differences and probably couldn't care less, certainly golf course marketers don't. But on a site like this one the true distinctions should be made and it looks like they have been. Personally, I'd go with the more exact and specific definition--basically a site that has all of where golf originally came from.

Forrest and Neal:

Very poor etiquette even thinking about drinking wine out of a plastic cup--even if there were no glasses around. Never do that again! In a pinch or in the bush or the wild if there're no glasses and a nice bottle of wine around simply remove the cork, put the bottle to your lips and drink! Then pass it to the next person.

In this extraordinarily self conscious world we now live in people don't understand that anymore. People are much to hygenic these days. They think they may catch a cootie or something if a bottle of wine passes from lip to lip. Even cooties are good--but only in small doses. They can actually strenghten and inure one's stomach over time against becoming unnecessarily upset by things like hot Mexican peppers.

If you still don't like the au naturel lip to lip bottle method of drinking wine in the wild or in a pinch just let me know---I've already promised to give all good golf architects a nice flask for Christmas. Flasks are always in the realm of good etiquette, the cooties in them are generally one's own and flasks are wonderful for architectural creativity too.

[Forrest Richardson]

I agree about germs, Mexican peppers and such. The need for the plastic glass mistake may have had to do with fairness and measuring. The bus was dark and we all suspected Perry Dye may have taken more than his share of the lovely Santa Barbara Cab — Neal was more than fair and I can attest that the juice was no more than a fast swing speed within its foreign plastic vessel.

[TEPaul]

Forrest:

It's a good thing it was Perry and not P.B. or you guys wouldn't have had a drop of wine to drink. P.B. would have chugged the whole bottle in a New York second!

One time years ago I was playing in the Florida International at the Palm Beach Polo Club with my partner and P.B (who built the course) and Davis Sezna (Hartefeld National) and to this day I've never come remotely close to laughing that much and that hard in a single round of golf. P.B. and Davis are individually funnier than about 75% of the world's professional comedians and you put them together and--Oh My God!!

On one hole P.B. drove right over a ridge on the right and crash landed the cart on its side in a bunker on the other side--saying after he dusted himself off; "I forgot it was there!"

[Forrest Richardson]

Was it a pot bunker? Did he ever get out? This may well be my answer to winning design contracts!