Valhalla critique

[Chip Gaskins]

From those that have actually played Valhalla (I have not) what it is the real kick on the course?  We all know the common GCA issues with Nicklaus courses, but how does Valhalla compare to the common Nicklaus critique and has the redesign done anything to help any old issues (crazy 18th green, etc).  Is there one fundamental flaw or is the new course actually pretty good?

[John Kavanaugh]

I played Vallaha in a Ryder Cup type event before the renovations and found it to be very much like what we are seeing today.  There is something about that course that allows for great back and fourth action.  We are seeing it today, we saw it with Tiger and May...exactly why I am not sure.   The course is playing wide and short with the short rough and the greens are rolling true as can be.  To me, I would think it could be the perfect model of an easy championship course so many of you desire.  Valhalla may be as fine a design for their widely varied 365 day demographic as exists today.  This video captures Valhalla better than I can express:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku3519hNbac

[Bill_McBride]

I played Vallaha in a Ryder Cup type event before the renovations and found it to be very much like what we are seeing today.  There is something about that course that allows for great back and fourth action.  We are seeing it today, we saw it with Tiger and May...exactly why I am not sure.   The course is playing wide and short with the short rough and the greens are rolling true as can be.  To me, I would think it could be the perfect model of an easy championship course so many of you desire.  Valhalla may be as fine a design for their widely varied 365 day demographic as exists today.  This video captures Valhalla better than I can express:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ku3519hNbac

LOL    Are you saying "Valhalla puts the 'country' back in country club?"

[John Kavanaugh]

The course really is "A little bit country, a little bit rock and roll."  Another great golf video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfqqR1MXC5A&feature=related

[Matt_Cohn]

Those websites are not age-appropriate for anyone under 30. Please warn us next time.

[Phil McDade]

I have to agree w/ John -- that PGA was one of the most exciting tournaments I've ever watched, and the course seems to be well-suited for match-play. A good mix of tough/easy holes, with some interesting choices about how to attack the course.

I have to say that, with few exceptions, the play on both sides has been somewhat indifferent (save for Hunter/Leonard who played very well.) Maybe the nature of foursomes and the first day out. The Holmes/Weekley pairing is great!

[Kalen Braley]

I have to agree w/ John -- that PGA was one of the most exciting tournaments I've ever watched, and the course seems to be well-suited for match-play. A good mix of tough/easy holes, with some interesting choices about how to attack the course.

I have to say that, with few exceptions, the play on both sides has been somewhat indifferent (save for Hunter/Leonard who played very well.) Maybe the nature of foursomes and the first day out. The Holmes/Weekley pairing is great!

The afternoon pairings seem odd.

They put the two steady eddies together.  Steve Stricker/Ben Curtis
And the two wild, yet long ballers together.  Holmes/Weekley

I would think in 4 ball, you would want to integrate those two teams so your long baller can make lots of birdies, and when he drives one in the trees the steady eddie is making the par for the halved hole.

Time will tell I guess, and Azinger sure seemed to make the right moves in the morning matches, although there was a bit of choking by the euros who had a 3 up lead in 2 matches and squanderd both of them away.

[Phil McDade]

I have to agree w/ John -- that PGA was one of the most exciting tournaments I've ever watched, and the course seems to be well-suited for match-play. A good mix of tough/easy holes, with some interesting choices about how to attack the course.

I have to say that, with few exceptions, the play on both sides has been somewhat indifferent (save for Hunter/Leonard who played very well.) Maybe the nature of foursomes and the first day out. The Holmes/Weekley pairing is great!

The afternoon pairings seem odd.

They put the two steady eddies together.  Steve Stricker/Ben Curtis
And the two wild, yet long ballers together.  Holmes/Weekley

I would think in 4 ball, you would want to integrate those two teams so your long baller can make lots of birdies, and when he drives one in the trees the steady eddie is making the par for the halved hole.

Time will tell I guess, and Azinger sure seemed to make the right moves in the morning matches, although there was a bit of choking by the euros who had a 3 up lead in 2 matches and squanderd both of them away.

Kalen:

The real poor play was was Perry/Furyk down the stretch; both played quite poorly, with Perry flubbing a lag putt, missing a 4-footer, and putting his drive in the water on three successive holes. (Albiet closely followed by the Rose/Poulter butchering of 18). US should be up by three, and with an average bunker shot by Kim on 18, possibly four.

In foursomes, a 3-up lead really isn't all that much to overcome; one or two bad drives or approaches, as we saw from Europe, and you're back in it. I'd argue 3-up is a much bigger lead in fourballs, where you really have to go on a birdie run and hope your opponents par a few to get back in it. Foursomes is much more likely to have significant swings.

I like the Curtis/Stricker and the Holmes/Weekley pairings -- Curtis and Stricker are both pretty steady, and probably won't play themselves out of too many holes (although I thought Curtis more likely for foursomes...).

[Tom Yost]

I thought it funny that Faldo made a crack about the web site describing Valhalla as a "Scottish links."

[John Moore II]

I think the golf course in general, what I have seen on TV is a pretty good course. It has a good bit of strategy, with some split fairways, and good number of risk/reward shots, etc. My big knock on the course is the 13th hole. It is entirely out of character, the rock wall looks TERRIBLE, the green is contrived, I could go on. Its a plainly poor hole, IMHO.

[Andy Troeger]

I think every time I've watched events at Valhalla I've really liked the look of the place, even though a lot of GCA folks don't like it. Granted, I like quite a few of Nicklaus' courses that aren't necessarily GCA favorites even though they are ranked highly. There aren't many places I'd rather play than Muirfield Village or Castle Pines. Not sure Valhalla is as good as either of those, but I'd like to find out!

I actually think #13 looks pretty cool. Its not the only place with the rock wall, so I don't see it being that out of place. Its just manufactured.