[Bill Brightly]

A buddy told me that Nicklaus is threatening to remove his name from Mansion Ridge (NY) because the overall conditioning is so poor. I've heard that the course is in poor condition, but I was surprised that an architect could remove his name.

Is this a standard contract clause?

[Clyde Johnston]

No, it's not a standard contract clause but I've heard that some of the big names have that type of clause in their contracts.

I wonder how much weight a threat like that has.

[Lester George]

I have heard Jack threaten this before.  I don't think he has ever done it though. 

I don't have it as a contractual condition but I have told certain clients that I would remove my name if they became an embarrasment.

Lester

[Jeff_Brauer]

Ditto above.

Somehow, Hogan supposedly had his name removed from Trophy club, but every article about it says he co-designed it, with many noting that he did want his name taken off.

Its not a common clause, and only a few gca's really have their name associated strongly with cousres anyway.  It would probably take court action whether that clause was in the contract or not to initiate such action.  Even then, it would only stop an owner from using the gca's name in advertising.  Many would still know its a Nicklaus design.

[Mike_Young]

I had just the opposite happen....the local blueprint shop calls one morning and says that a "wheeler/dealer" had brought a set of my plans in and had asked them to  change the title block to a nicklaus title block he had.....really hurt my feelings....glad i knew the blueprint shop... you never know whats going on out there....

[Lester George]

Mike,

I hope you drill that owner into the ground.

Lester

[TEPaul]

RTJ wrote The London Hunt Club in London, Ontario and told them he wanted to or was removing his name from that course. Interestingly, in the last few years it's basically been restored to mostly the original RTJ design by his son Rees. I can't confirm it but I heard RTJ Jr wrote Rees and told him he would prefer it if the name RTJ was not used but if Rees wanted to he could call London Hunt a Rees Jones course. Then I heard, although I can't confirm it, that Rees wrote Bobby and told him he is RTJ JUNIOR, and that he will always be A JUNIOR and definitely NOT RTJ and that he planned on telling London Hunt they could use RTJ again. Then Bobby wrote Rees in blood-red ink and...., well anyway, you get the picture.   

There's a really good player coming down from The London Hunt Club for the AJDP tournament at GMGC this weekend; I'll ask him what they call the course these days architect-wise.

[Chip Gaskins]

i think Nicklaus asked for his name to be removed from a course in myrtle beach called Long Bay. it was having financial trouble in the mid 90s and course conditions went way down.  he might have just asked for his name to be removed from marketing materials and not completely removed "as architect".

[Carl Rogers]

OT maybe
In the world of buildings, design services contracts, builiding codes, liability and so forth, we can resign from a project when an owner and contractor deviate from the drawings and specs .... very ugly and a one way trip to court.

[Jon Wiggett]

I had just the opposite happen....the local blueprint shop calls one morning and says that a "wheeler/dealer" had brought a set of my plans in and had asked them to  change the title block to a nicklaus title block he had.....really hurt my feelings....glad i knew the blueprint shop... you never know whats going on out there....

Mike, you should be proud that someone thinks your work is of a standard to bo worthy of the NICKLAUS label

[Tommy Williamsen]

There is a course in MD called Martingham at Harbor Town.  It was an early Pete Dye course.  I don't think he lists it as a one of his.  I wonder if some of the old dead guys would recognize their course.  I think of Baltusrol Lower and Augusta National may be examples. 

Maybe there is another question.  When does a course cease to be the design of the first architect?

[Kalen Braley]

There is a course in MD called Martingham at Harbor Town.  It was an early Pete Dye course.  I don't think he lists it as a one of his.  I wonder if some of the old dead guys would recognize their course.  I think of Baltusrol Lower and Augusta National may be examples. 

Maybe there is another question.  When does a course cease to be the design of the first architect?

Tommy,

These are the great questions of architecture.

I've always likened it to where does your ass end and your legs start?  Kinda hard to tell for sure, but usually have a ball-park idea.

[Tim Gavrich]

Nicklaus courses have different levels of design mention, I believe.  There's a difference between a "Nicklaus Design" course and a "Jack Nicklaus Signature" course.  I believe Nicklaus Design can remove the "Signature" designation in certain circumstances.  I had heard that that was the threat made against Pawleys Plantation if the club decided to put up condos along the 18th hole.

[Mike_Cirba]

There is a course in MD called Martingham at Harbor Town.  It was an early Pete Dye course.  I don't think he lists it as a one of his.  I wonder if some of the old dead guys would recognize their course.  I think of Baltusrol Lower and Augusta National may be examples. 

Maybe there is another question.  When does a course cease to be the design of the first architect?

Tommy,

I believe Roy Dye was also involved there.

It isn't a great course by any stretch, but I do recall a few cool holes on the back nine that head Dye's infamous railroad ties.

At the time it was my first Pete Dye courses and I also remember being very excited at seeing them in person.

Ahh...to be that unjaded again.  

[Kalen Braley]

Ahh...to be that unjaded again.  

You mean like Sarah Palin?  I know, how would it be..      

[Chris Burgard]

RTJ wrote The London Hunt Club in London, Ontario and told them he wanted to or was removing his name from that course. Interestingly, in the last few years it's basically been restored to mostly the original RTJ design by his son Rees. I can't confirm it but I heard RTJ Jr wrote Rees and told him he would prefer it if the name RTJ was not used but if Rees wanted to he could call London Hunt a Rees Jones course. Then I heard, although I can't confirm it, that Rees wrote Bobby and told him he is RTJ JUNIOR, and that he will always be A JUNIOR and definitely NOT RTJ and that he planned on telling London Hunt they could use RTJ again. Then Bobby wrote Rees in blood-red ink and...., well anyway, you get the picture.   

There's a really good player coming down from The London Hunt Club for the AJDP tournament at GMGC this weekend; I'll ask him what they call the course these days architect-wise.

Hi Tom,

London Hunt still refers to itself as a Robert Trent Jones design (1960) and the Rees renovation (2000) is called a "face-lift" on its website.

Chris

[Cliff Hamm]

I believe that after the Gil Hanse redesign of TPC Boston, Arnold Palmer requested that his name no longer be associated with the course.

[Jim Sweeney]

RTJ, it is said, threatened to tremove his name from the Gold and Blue courses at the Wigwam when they were thinking of changing the greens from bent to tiff. They kept the bent until a little while after he passed away. Hard to grow good bent in the Arizona summer.

[Mike_Young]

Mike,

I hope you drill that owner into the ground.

Lester

Lester,
I called the owner who just laughed about it and said he needed it for financing and not to worry about it....tried to explain to him what he had done and he could have cared less.....a different bird....he's still working on it.....

[paul cowley]

I could remove my name but I doubt anyone would notice, much less feel threatened.

[John_Conley]

I've always likened it to where does your ass end and your legs start? 

Didn't John Travolta's character in one of his movies say there is no ass, just the top of your legs?

Anyway, I played a municipal in High Point, NC in the early 1990s.  Designed by Pete Dye, there was no mention of it on their scorecard.  I was told this was at his request since it was a sub-$20 track.  I assumed it was true, but maybe not.  I'm pretty sure he designed the course.  Oak something maybe?

[Matt Kardash]

If an architect removes his name does the architect then become Alan Smithee?

[Tony Ristola]

Faldo has at least a couple courses in Thailand that promote his name, but the projects are nowhere to be found on his website.

I find the whole thing pretty amusing.

If conditions improve, can they put the name plate back up? How long do they remain on probation? Do they get a rebate?

These courses could have signs like gas stations, where they can take the name off and put it back up.

[Brian_Ewen]

Jack Nicklaus removed his name from the Centenary Course at Gleneagles after refusing to alter holes , and the job being then given to McLay Kidd .

Well that was what the hotel said in an article last year .

Faldo took his name off of  Windmill Park just outside Bangkok , supposedly after he was unhappy at the amount of flower beds that surrounded the course . I have never seen the course promote using his name .

I am sure he would be unhappy at the state of his other two designs in Thailand (one with Desmond Muirhead) , but he still lists both as his designs .

[archie_struthers]

 


Jeff Brauer's post about Hogan and the Trophy Club is so quintessential HOGAN  (lol tep) 

What a curmudgeon he must have been , and such a supreme talent at golf that people actually tolerated him!

The story about young Johnny Miller introducing himself at the Open and getting the infamous "can't you see I'm eating my soup.....to not notiicing the jhole in one by Gene Sarazen ...sorry I;m a little off topic here but reading Jeff's post just set me off

later ARCHIE

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