[Bob_Huntley]

Rich:

What an admirable description of the 18th. The cadence, the rythm, the bite at the end in your sly reference to a possible Hunter overload; you should really be our next Poet Laureate.

[A_Clay_Man]

For those without the wherewithall to have experienced the 18th at CPC, what makes it so visually unusuall is that the trees aren't like most trees, most people think of. The cypress trees don't grow straight up, they are kind of titled and grow at odd angles. This may be why Hunter made his comments. Plus the runway up to the green has a sweep to it which should get anyones juices flowing.

[Dan Kelly]

Rihc --

Just remember all of us little people as you continue your ascent to your inevitable recognition as the Most Beloved Figure in Poetry (and/or Golf).

Thank you. And thanks for the description of 18 -- which at least begins to fill in one of the many blanks in my wee head.

[TEPaul]

Bob Huntley:

My God man--what has happened to you--an otherwise highly respectable man?

You've been completely hoodwinked by a total contrarian whose only reason to be contrary is contrariness itself! Other than that there's absolutely no purpose, point or principle in his behavior and remarks except what I just mentioned--to be contrary!!

There's almost no merit in anything he says--except when he occasionally becomes so contrary he gets confused what direction his points are going in and just by sheer luck and statistical odds (or is it just everyday fate) he might hit on something that might be "on point" which he has alarmingly done TWICE in the last few days only serving to make contemplating "odds" that much more complex and maddening!

And you want him to be the Poet Laureate of this Website??

That's no more than a prescription for Pat Mucci's greatest fear in architecture--total anarchy!!

The only true thing you said in your post is someone fed him too much of some good whiskey whilst he was last at CPC!!

Turn the routing of Cypress around!?!? My God, it's almost beyond comprehension as much because Alister and RobertH did it the way it is and even anarchists such as this man should have enough respect to not suggest such things!!--Forget even about interesting architectural analysis on this very point--we can't have people like this man taking even those liberties of thought--it's just too damned dangerous!

Whatever that whiskey was it must have reddened and bloated his eyes--if he could not see somehow beneath too many cypress trees the extreme beauty of the topography and natual contour of that hole (and yes going in the direction it does!).

At first the hole is an abomination to him and then a moment later it's secretly a wonderful thing because it is an abomination!

The both of you need to see Dr. Katz--certainly that madman does who has escaped to Scotland for whatever reason!

Email me and I will supply you both with the rarely used tel # of Katz's red phone!

[Bob_Huntley]

Bump.

This is all I could find, trust me there were others of more recent vintage.

[Tom Naccarato]

Thanks Bob! I appreciate it. It also proves that I don't know my way around this website!

[Philippe Binette]

It's hard to claim mistakes on some of the best courses in the World...

Planting grown-up trees and then taking them out 6 years later is a mistake (ANGC)

I think every architect makes mistakes... but it always hard to call unless you've seen the site before construction. And mistakes for some is genius for others.

[TEPaul]

I don't think I would call this a MISTAKE necessarily but I spose most would----eg did you know the ultra creative Tilly once designed a green on one of the holes of a course that was in the cellar of the clubhouse? The multi-optional approach strategies to that green were mind-bogglingly clever. They say he did it while in the bar of the clubhouse after visiting the wine-cellar and being mightily impressed by it!

Macdonald saw the plan and proclaimed it had the potential to be one of the great greens in the world if they could only grow grass on it. I think this might have been the time Tilly came to the conclusion that Macdonald's architectural imagination was overly unnatural and frankly quite mundane!

[Ian Andrew]

I must admit I have always wondered about Walter Travis's ability to route a course. While I can show you exceptional holes created through an unusual routing like the 10th at CC of Scranton - there are situations that I have seen that I just don't get at all.

For example the finish at Onondaga has bling tee shots on the 13th (14 is a three), 15th, 16th, 17th (and so is the second shot bling too) and 18th. There are plenty more on the course before that. I don't mind blindness, but I don't get the use of so many blind shots. It didn't have to be this way - it's definately intentional.

[Tom_Doak]

Are you sure it's intentional, and not just that he didn't give a damn whether the tee shot was blind or not?

[Ian Andrew]

Are you sure it's intentional, and not just that he didn't give a damn whether the tee shot was blind or not?

Tom,

Does it matter for which reason - he built more blind holes than any other architect that I know.

I always wondered why on some of his courses there are no blind shots despite the complicated terrain and yet at others there seems to be lots when a routing with no blind shots was quite easy to find.

Royal County Down makes sense to me since each blind tee shot leads to a great green site or hole. I don't get the same sense on some of his courses - and its not as if the holes link other great holes either. There seems to be a pattern of presenting blind tee shots hit over rises to landing areas hidden beyond - just because.

Maybe your comment is right - he simply didn't give a damned - but does that make it good architecture when it could have easily beedn avoided?

[Anthony Gray]

Tom,

Excellent thread and most interesting view on what makes a 'mistake' a mistake and not just a quirky hole.

I think the Classic is at Cruden Bay Scotland.

Tom Simpson and Herbert Fowler laid out the course and created the worst par three in existance. The 15th is a blind Dog Leg par three!!

  Ally,

  I love this hole. The hole fits the course perfectly. Look at what preceeds it and follows it. I blind par 3 is not an unique occurance in Scotland.Why would it be loved at Prestwick and not at Cruden Bay?

               Anthony




 

[Rich Goodale]

Are you sure it's intentional, and not just that he didn't give a damn whether the tee shot was blind or not?

There seems to be a pattern of presenting blind tee shots hit over rises to landing areas hidden beyond - just because.

Ian

By this criterion you must have not much nice to say about the tee shots on the Old Course.....

.....but then, of course, maybe Travis was just copying the Old Course, in which case we are obliged to like his style, no?

Rich

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