[Brian Cenci]

Myself, fellow GCA'r Dave Neveux and another golf nut are in the infant stages of planning a trip to Ireland, N. Ireland and maybe portions of Scotland next year.  The time of year, dates, length and a bunch of other factors are still undetermined.  All that we know is that we are trying to plan something in the 10-15 day range that will allow us to play a lot of golf, enjoy ourselves (i.e. no 8 hour drives in between courses) and see some neat places and share some cool experiences along the way. 

For starters we're trying to figure out the golfing aspect and are trying to figure out the places to play in Ireland, Northern Ireland & Scotland.  I've done a fair bit of internet research (including past posts on GCA) and come up with some of the courses that consistently top peoples lists to play when across the pond.  So, I'd welcome any comments regarding the courses I've listed or any that I haven't listed.  Anything would be appreciated from comments regarding "cost of the round isn't worth the golf" to "too far off the beaten path to make a special trip to play" to "there's better across the block at 1/2 the price"

As some of you may know Dave and I are seasoned stateside travelers (embarking on a week long driving trip or two a year across the country), once taking on a 7500 mile, 16 day trip in which we played 18 courses, 24 rounds while driving from Lansing, Michigan to Bandon, Oregon.  We are NOT trying to recreate that experience with this trip but at the same time we're not looking to golf casually every other day.

Tentatively I've layed out a basic travel plan for a 15 DAY trip.  This is probably a best case or extreme scenario as several "real world" factors aren't being considered (cost, location, playability of course, private / public, etc.).  This is purely for purposes of discussion and a starting point:

Day 1: Arrive in Dublin (prefferebly morning) and tour the town
Day 2: County Louth G.C. - 18 holes & The European Club - 18 holes
Day 3: Old Head- 36 holes 
Day 4: Waterville Golf Lonks - 36 holes
Day 5: Ballybunion (Old) - 36 holes
Day 6: Lahinch - 36 holes
Day 7: OFF DAY (travel to Royal County Down)
Day 8: Royal County Down - 36 holes
Day 9: Royal Portrush (Dunlace) - 36 holes
Day 10: Royal Troon (Old) - 18 holes & Turnberry (Ailsa) - 18 holes
Day 11: Prestwick - 18 holes & Western Gailes - 18 holes
Day 12: Carnoustie (Championship) - 36 holes
Day 13: St. Andrews (Old) - 18 holes IF NOT St. Andrews (New)  - 18 holes
Day 14: St. Andrews (Castle Course) - 18 holes &  Kingsbarns - 18 holes
Day 15: Muirfield - 18 holes IF NOT North Berwick (West) - 18 holes

I would appreciate any constructive thoughts, comments and opinions.

-Brian

[Rory Connaughton]

The Southwest to County Down is a huge drive and a lost day. You are better off re-routing by landing in Shannon, playing the courses in the southwest (Lahinch, Ballybunion to Old Head) then traveling over to the European Club up to Co. Louth and from there into the North and then to Scotland by ferry.  This route should prevent  lost travel days.

[jeffwarne]

Why arrive in Dublin and drive accross the country twice?
arrive Shannon, play Lahinch, then work south toward Ballybunion
and down to Waterville, Old Head, accross to European Club, up to Dublin (take your tour then to rest) then catch County Louth, Northern Ireland etc.

Ambitious itinerary, but it sounds like you can handle ambitious.
One of the great things about Scottish and Irish golf is the hidden gems you can encounter and the friendly attitudes and people and reasonable prices you encounter at such places (a throwback to 15-20 years ago in Ireland)
With the exception of County Louth and perhaps North Berwick , it's all pretty famous,expensive,relatively touristy and not much of the low key variety-to say nothing of the windshield time.

Seems a shame to miss the excellent Valley course at Portrush (to say nothing of Portstewart)when right there and the Portland course at Troon is included in the 220 + pound price.
and it would kill me to drive right by Dooks (and dozens of others along your route)and not play it.

Obviously I'm used to smaller geographic areas with equal ambition -but in a shorter trip.

[Doug Wright]

Brian,

If you are only going to be in Ireland/Scotland once in your life maybe this is OK, but otherwise there's way too much travel involved. As others mentioned above, you can easily devote one trip to SW Ireland-Dublin or Ireland-N. Ireland without then going to Scotland. IMO you'd be passing by a lot of very fine courses with this itinerary. I'll be happy to send you our pending Northern Ireland-Ireland itinerary if that would be helpful.

[Tom Huckaby]

A few things:

1.  I'm sure you've heard this already, but the drives will NOT be easy.  These aren't US interstates.  Figure most drives taking twice as long as you'd think from a US perspective - then plan accordingly.

2.  Jeff is spot on re all of this:
Seems a shame to miss the excellent Valley course at Portrush (to say nothing of Portstewart)when right there and the Portland course at Troon is included in the 220 + pound price.
and it would kill me to drive right by Dooks (and dozens of others along your route)and not play it.

3.  Another up that way that is very worthwhile is the one I constantly trumpet, Castlerock.  But it seems you are only going for the superstar highlight courses - and there is nothing wrong with that - but if you have time, this is worth seeing also.  It's right near Portrush/Portstewart.

4.  If you really want to go gung-ho, you don't need that off day.  You could drive up and play Rosses Point or another near Galway/Sligo early am, then drive over to Newcastle after that for RCDown.  I did exactly this once.

5.  Not sure you should play Ballybunion Old twice and not the Cashen.  Oh, some don't like the latter... but it is pretty spectacular one way or the other.  On the other hand, I think once is enough for Old Head.  Not sure how to combine that with another local course though....

6.  Tough to arrange ONLY 18 holes at Muirfield.  Also the full 36 hole day there, with lunch and cocktails and foursomes thereafter, is a golf experience not to be missed.  That being said, N. Berwick is as fun as golf gets also... Shoot Gullane has #1 and at least two other courses worth playing... man you have some tough choices there.

7.  As Doug says and others have alluded to, this is a LOT of road and boat time and is surely not the ideal way to experience any of these places.  My assumption is that you are looking at it as a once in a life-time, never going back trip.  If so, do it.  If not, man think about creating a few hubs and doing less travel... it will be a lot more fun.

In the end, heck if you did it exactly as you state there, it would be one hell of a trip.  These are just things to think about.  

TH

[CJ Carder]

Couple of thoughts on the Scotland leg...

1.  I'm almost positive that Troon's pricing structure for visitors includes an afternoon 18 on the Portland Course.  Now, there's nothing that says you have to play it, but you will pay for it.  If you're OK with that, that's fine.  Just be aware that I found Troon to be enjoyable, but without a doubt the most overpriced portion of our trip.

2.  That said, you might have an easier time combining Troon and Prestwick in the same day rather than Troon and Turnberry.  I honestly think Turnberry is worth an entire day, but we didn't play Western Gailes either.

3.  If you guys are a bit ambitious, and it sounds like you are, I'd ensure that you get to play the Old Course and get up crack-o-dawn early and go stand in the singles line.  Yeah, you may not wind up in the same 4some, but you'll get to go almost for sure that way.  That is, unless you get a time on the ballot, which is much better.

4.  Just be aware that Muirfield usually only allows outside play on Tuesdays and Thursdays and they seem to book up WAY early.  Our trip was in August 2007 and we had our Muirfield tee times booked by May 2006.  Muirfield is by far the best experience in Scotland IMO.  Again, like Troon, the cost of Muirfield includes a morning 4ball, lunch in the dining room with coat and tie, and an afternoon 4somes.  I'd plan on spending the whole day at Muirfield.  

5.  Problem is, that sort of cuts out North Berwick, which is a shame.  Can you squeeze in a Day 16 and play North Berwick and maybe one at Gullane?  

[TX Golf]

While a travel day seems like it might be a lost day, it is also a day of rest at the same time. I was on a similar trip last summer and have to say that I was glad to take a few days off of playing to go watch the Padraig win the Open. That many days of 36 starts to take its toll. Also, depending on when tee times are available, you might want to consider playing Troon and Prestwick in the same day, and then Western Gailes and Turnberry together. At one point on the outward nine of Troon you can see Prestwick only about 100 yards away. They are all quite close together so it really isn't a big deal but this way you also are able to play the two "championship" or "Open" courses on separate days. All four are great courses. Good luck.

[TX Golf]

looks like somebody already beat me to the Troon and Prestwick idea. Don't skip Western Gailes. CJ is also right in that you don't want to cut out North Berwick. It is one of the best tracks over there.

[Brian Cenci]

Brian,

If you are only going to be in Ireland/Scotland once in your life maybe this is OK, but otherwise there's way too much travel involved. As others mentioned above, you can easily devote one trip to SW Ireland-Dublin or Ireland-N. Ireland without then going to Scotland. IMO you'd be passing by a lot of very fine courses with this itinerary. I'll be happy to send you our pending Northern Ireland-Ireland itinerary if that would be helpful.

Doug,
     I'd appreciate any info sent my way.  This isn't a once in a life deal but probably once in the next 10 years type of trip.  I'm getting married in December (Dave is my best man) and while my fiance is probably one of the most understanding individuals in the world regarding my love for golf, the time for such a trip with the "buddies" is growing shorter.  In my honest opinion I think we're probably looking at a 8-10 day in Ireland/N.Ireland with a 2-3 days stint in Scotland (Troon, Turnberry, W. Gailes, Prestwich).  I posted all of the options as a starting point.  Thanks for the insight.

-Brian

[Tom Huckaby]

Brian:  a word of friendly advice - treat it as a once in a lifetime trip.  Do not take anything for granted.   Many are the women who are understanding before marriage, especially with marriage promised, few are those who continue this understanding very long post-marriage, very very very few are those who show any understanding once the kids arrive.

TH

[Brian Cenci]

Why arrive in Dublin and drive accross the country twice?
arrive Shannon, play Lahinch, then work south toward Ballybunion
and down to Waterville, Old Head, accross to European Club, up to Dublin (take your tour then to rest) then catch County Louth, Northern Ireland etc.

Ambitious itinerary, but it sounds like you can handle ambitious.
One of the great things about Scottish and Irish golf is the hidden gems you can encounter and the friendly attitudes and people and reasonable prices you encounter at such places (a throwback to 15-20 years ago in Ireland)
With the exception of County Louth and perhaps North Berwick , it's all pretty famous,expensive,relatively touristy and not much of the low key variety-to say nothing of the windshield time.

Seems a shame to miss the excellent Valley course at Portrush (to say nothing of Portstewart)when right there and the Portland course at Troon is included in the 220 + pound price.
and it would kill me to drive right by Dooks (and dozens of others along your route)and not play it.

Obviously I'm used to smaller geographic areas with equal ambition -but in a shorter trip.

Thanks for the comments.  You raise a good point regarding flying to the SW courses first, then going to Dublin.  I only assumed Dublin was the starting point because of being a najor city for inter-country travel.  Are there any courses that we should avoid for a "hidden gem" or two?

-Brian

[Tom Birkert]

Just a few comments...

No Portmarnock? I really enjoyed my round there, and as you're flying into Dublin it's pretty easy to get to.

With regards to Scotland, doing Prestwick and Troon in a day will be easier than incorporating Turnberry. Also, play at Turnberry is very slow as it's effectively a resort course and you might have to stay there to play. They are also hosting The Open next year so that might cause problems in scheduling.

You really are spoilt for choice, the only courses you might have problems getting on are Muirfield (Tuesdays and Thurs only) and maybe Old Head. For a complete change of place and scenery Loch Lomond is a lovely experience but again access could be an issue.

[Brian Cenci]

A few things:

1.  I'm sure you've heard this already, but the drives will NOT be easy.  These aren't US interstates.  Figure most drives taking twice as long as you'd think from a US perspective - then plan accordingly.

2.  Jeff is spot on re all of this:
Seems a shame to miss the excellent Valley course at Portrush (to say nothing of Portstewart)when right there and the Portland course at Troon is included in the 220 + pound price.
and it would kill me to drive right by Dooks (and dozens of others along your route)and not play it.

3.  Another up that way that is very worthwhile is the one I constantly trumpet, Castlerock.  But it seems you are only going for the superstar highlight courses - and there is nothing wrong with that - but if you have time, this is worth seeing also.  It's right near Portrush/Portstewart.

4.  If you really want to go gung-ho, you don't need that off day.  You could drive up and play Rosses Point or another near Galway/Sligo early am, then drive over to Newcastle after that for RCDown.  I did exactly this once.

5.  Not sure you should play Ballybunion Old twice and not the Cashen.  Oh, some don't like the latter... but it is pretty spectacular one way or the other.  On the other hand, I think once is enough for Old Head.  Not sure how to combine that with another local course though....

6.  Tough to arrange ONLY 18 holes at Muirfield.  Also the full 36 hole day there, with lunch and cocktails and foursomes thereafter, is a golf experience not to be missed.  That being said, N. Berwick is as fun as golf gets also... Shoot Gullane has #1 and at least two other courses worth playing... man you have some tough choices there.

7.  As Doug says and others have alluded to, this is a LOT of road and boat time and is surely not the ideal way to experience any of these places.  My assumption is that you are looking at it as a once in a life-time, never going back trip.  If so, do it.  If not, man think about creating a few hubs and doing less travel... it will be a lot more fun.

In the end, heck if you did it exactly as you state there, it would be one hell of a trip.  These are just things to think about.  

TH

Tom,
      We have found that the "hub" concept works for a more enjoyable trip (done some in Pinehurst area, Charleston, etc.).  What would you suggest be the "hubs" if we did it that way?
     Also, what is the story with Muirfield?  I've heard several stories that it is a day of golf and the rounds, games and times are non-negotiable if you can get on.

-Brian

[Matt MacIver]

My $0.02:

1) Carnoustie is out of the way from a St. Andrews / Muirfield standpoint.  Consider skipping it and adding that day to round out Muirfield / N Berwick-Gullane and possibly the new privates there.  

2) Consider playing Machrahanish on your way from IRE to SCO - it might be do-able.  If you had to scrap one my vote would be Western Gailes, or Troon (but DO play Turnberry and Prestwick).  

3) I love seeing hidden gems but the way I plan my trips is to see as many "great" courses as I can, as I'm still trying to understand what "great" is.  Decades from now when I retire I'll go back and play my favorites again and finally discover some of those hidden gems.  I treat every golf trip as if it's the first and last time I'll be there.  

Have fun!

[Brian Cenci]

Just a few comments...

No Portmarnock? I really enjoyed my round there, and as you're flying into Dublin it's pretty easy to get to.

With regards to Scotland, doing Prestwick and Troon in a day will be easier than incorporating Turnberry. Also, play at Turnberry is very slow as it's effectively a resort course and you might have to stay there to play. They are also hosting The Open next year so that might cause problems in scheduling.

You really are spoilt for choice, the only courses you might have problems getting on are Muirfield (Tuesdays and Thurs only) and maybe Old Head. For a complete change of place and scenery Loch Lomond is a lovely experience but again access could be an issue.

Is Portmanock private?  I wasn't sure and I thought I checked the price and it looked up there.  Anyways, that may be an option, especially if we choose Dublin as a 2/3 day hub.

[David_Tepper]

Brian -

I think trying to play County Louth (Baltray), 30-40 miles north of Dublin, and the European Club, which is 20-30 miles south of Dublin, in the same day would be a brutal day. Driving in and around Dublin is not at all easy. There is a ton of traffic and not a lot of freeways. It could take you 2 hours to drive from one to the other.

I would definitely combine County Louth with one of the other courses on the north side of Dublin - either Portmarnock or the Island.

DT

[Brian Cenci]

Brian -

I think trying to play County Louth (Baltray), 30-40 miles north of Dublin, and the European Club, which is 20-30 miles south of Dublin, would be a brutal day. Driving in and around Dublin is not at all easy. There is a ton of traffic and not a lot of freeways. It could take you 2 hours to drive from one to the other.

I would definitely combine County Louth with one of the other courses on the north side of Dublin - either Portmarnock or the Island.

DT

Thanks for the info....good stuff!

[Tom Huckaby]

Brian:

You get the idea re hubs.  You could do it like this:

Fly into Shannon, get a place to stay somewhere central, stay there for several days, play all the SW courses - none will be all that far.

Drive north, repeat in Portrush... hit RCD on the way down, cross to Scotland....

Hub one near Troon/Prestwick/etc.

Hub two in Edinburgh, or maybe St. Andrews - just understand that the drive from St. Andrews to Muirfield/Gullane is NOT exactly US interstates - it's tiny roads for most of it, with traffic - so you don't want to do that unless you have to.

As for Muirfield, well nothing is impossible if you know the right people, but outside of that, what everyone has said so far is true:  a normal visitor books through their website, they accept visitors on Tue and Thu, and you pay for the whole day - 18 fourball in the am, lunch with cocktails (must wear coat and tie), 18 foursomes in the am - no deviation.  It sounds onerous and restrictive, but I swear if you just take it at face value (and that face value is a LOT in terms of dollars), well... it's as much fun as one can have playing this game.  I loved it.  I wouldn't want to do it every day - it's too expensive and it is restrictive - but for a one time visit thing?  Loved it.

Thus I am not sure you CAN just play 18 there... of course you could bail after the am, but man that's a lot of money - and fun - to leave on the table.

On one more thing - you simply MUST stay one night in Dublin.  New Orleans has nothing on Dublin as a party town.  It simply must be experienced.

TH

[Mark Bourgeois]

Why not build your trip around BUDA? The worst mistake people traveling through make, IMHO, is to miss the local experience.

Use weekends for travel and / or mind the weekend access issues.

Think in terms of bases first, courses second. Try to cover an area via day trips to and from bases. Hubs for pubs - better than point to point to point.

Mark

[Tom Huckaby]

Mark makes a great point re weekends - those will be your toughest days to find access for.  To that end, are you setting this up yourself or using a travel company?  The former can be done and is kinda fun, the latter can make more dreams come true.

And he's also right that you ought to get into the local experience as much as possible.  That being said, it's tough to pass up chances to play courses you may never get to again.  There's no easy answer to this and we've discussed it many times in here. 

TH

[Mark Smolens]

Brian,
Two years ago I spent a week in Ireland with a judge friend who I would consider well off.  He has a tour guide (Jimmy O'Leary -- I can find an e-mail address for Jimmy if you're interested) who is the absolute best.  Jimmy knows every course operator, innkeeper and restauranteur in the country, both countries.  Going with Jimmy is first class.  We stayed in great places (Slieve Donard Hotel, Portmarnock Links Hotel, the cool place on top of the hill overlooking Portrush), single rooms, were driven around in Jimmy's huge Mercedes bus, and the food was fabulous everywhere we ate.  Jimmy gets great rates and I would highly recommend him for a trip around Ireland and the North.

As Tom Huckaby notes, if you have one hub on the southwest coast (near Shannon), you can play Ballybunion, Lahinch, etc.  Then north to Portrush area, with perhaps a stop at County Sligo (near Portrush I'd throw Ballycastle in as a hidden gem along with Castlerock).  On way down to Dublin, a stop at County Down, the in Dublin you have Portmarnock, Island, Baltry, even the rabbits and Royal Dublin?  Personally I'd skip European Club, but you should give Mr. Ruddy's course a try if you haven't been there.  

Then you could, leave Jimmy, ferry across to Scotland with an excursion to Southerness, spend the night at Turnberry (massage and gravity pool, then bagpipes while you're down on the pitch and putt at the bottom of the hill. . . sweet), then Prestwick area (Troon, Western Gailes and Prestwick), then across the country to St. Andrews and a visit to Muirfield area.

Bring plenty of advil, lots of money, and enjoy. . .

[Bob_Huntley]

My $0.02:


2) Consider playing Machrahanish on your way from IRE to SCO - it might be do-able.  If you had to scrap one my vote would be Western Gailes, or Troon (but DO play Turnberry and Prestwick).  

Scrap Western Gailes?... Mother, wash out the boys mouth.

Bob

[Tom Huckaby]

I have to agree with Bob.  Upon HIS recommendation I added W. Gailes to a trip much like this years ago... and it was one of the highlights of the trip.  Do not miss this course.

TH

[Sean_A]

Brian

Folks have given some good advice especially concerning not flying to Dublin.  I am not so sure the hub idea works so well with your rather aggressive itinerary.  Though to be honest, it is the best way to see courses with minimal windshield time. 

1. Get yourself to Shannon and head over to Lahinch (the closest of your choices to the airport) for a game and stay the night.  Consider yourself lucky that you get a game in the day you fly. 

2. Honestly, Lahinch is that good that you may want to play it again the following am before heading down to Ballybunion for an afternoon game. 

3. You may to play Ballybunion again in the am before heading to Dublin.  Yes, I would skip Old Head and Waterville as they are well out of the way and not really among the short list elite of Ireland.  I am working from the perspective of not driving away from a great course because eyou are in a rush to see it all.  Heres the best tip, you can't see it all in two weeks so stop worrying about it.

4. You may be at a weekend by this time (that is how I would plan it) so look into perhaps getting an afternoon game (you may need a bit of rest after a night in Dublin) at TEC or if you are lucky you may pull one off at Portmarnock.  I would strongly consider playing the Island while in the area.  Portmarnock Links is a hotel course so it should be easier to get on for the weekend.

5. Make the drive to Co Louth and consider staying the night in the Dormy House especially if you fancy 36.  Personally, I don't like the idea of trying to play two big guns in a single day.  Its not cricket.

6. Get over to Co Down for an afternoon game and you could possibly head up to Portrush afterwards.

7. Play Portrush.  Consider playing Portstewart while in the area. 

8. Get over to Larne for the ferry to Troon.  See if a night crossing is on the cards - it saves hotel hassles.  Play Prestwick or Troon as they are quite close the ferry terminal. 

9. Play 36 at Turnberry. 

10. Play Prestwick or Troon and make the drive to St Andrews and hole up for the night. 

11 & 12. Play TOC come hell or high water.  Apply for a tee time in a few weeks I think is the deadline for applications.  This date should be what your entire trip revolves around.  If you don't get a time, devote two days to the cause if need be.  Its not like there aren't other courses of interest in the area.  Call while traveling to get on the ballot and call later to see if you were successful.  Show up in the am for a pick up game.  If you don't get on one day play Kingsbarns or the Castle course.  If you can play TOC twice its a bonus.  If you are looking for 36 in a day play something a bit more quaint in the area like Elie.  Skip Carnoustie.  Again its extra drive time when other courses are right on the doorstep. 

13. Drive over to North Berwick for a game.  This course should not be missed no matter what.  Play it twice or perhaps head over to Musselburgh for a late afternoon game. 

14. Play Muirfield and make sure you stay for lunch.  It is very possible to pay for only 18 holes, but most folks stay for the afternoon game.  I spose its worth paying the extra £40-50, but remember, its two balls only in the afternoon.  You said you may have 3 for the trip.  You could have a two against one match, but 3 balls are a no no. 

The way I see it, thats 16-20 games in two weeks.  Its an itinerary I would never dream of doing, but you seem a gamer. 

Ciao

[Daryl David]

You don't want your trip defined by what you missed instead of what you hit.

Your initial list is missing Portmarnock, The Island Club, North Berwick, and Kingsbarns.  It would be a mistake given the length of the trip to miss out on those.

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