[Mark Pearce]

Crail Balcomie has three very fun short par 4s: the opening hole (321), a very sharp downhill tee shot with fairway bunkers right, mounding in front of the green, and a funky, L-shaped green that is quite shallow or quite narrow, depending on where the pin is placed; the 9th, a blind tee shot because most of the fairway and green lies below a ridge about 150 yards from the tee. The tee shot is made all the more awkward because of an ancient stone wall that runs alongside the right of the fairway and angles into the line of play, and features a deep but narrow green with several bunkers left; and the 15th, right alongside the sea, a gently doglegging right hole of 266 yds where the golfer has to fit a tee shot in between the beach left and several fairway bunkers right. Those steering away from the large and deep greenside bunker right will find a green that shrugs off shots left; a simple hole if played as a long-iron/pitch, but fun for those trying to drive the green.

As a new member of Crail I've spent the last couple of weeks playing there nearly every day.  I agree with you on 1 and 9 ( a really, really good example) but would rate the 7th ahead of the 15th.  A blind tee shot from the forward tees or a drive to a plateau from the whites.  Then the hole turns sharp left to a green that runs away from you so severely that you're better off through the green than on it 15 feet short of the hole.

[TX Golf]

I believe #15, #16, and #18 at Prestwick are all under 330. One of those would have to be considered, especially #15, "the narrows"

[Phil McDade]

Crail Balcomie has three very fun short par 4s: the opening hole (321), a very sharp downhill tee shot with fairway bunkers right, mounding in front of the green, and a funky, L-shaped green that is quite shallow or quite narrow, depending on where the pin is placed; the 9th, a blind tee shot because most of the fairway and green lies below a ridge about 150 yards from the tee. The tee shot is made all the more awkward because of an ancient stone wall that runs alongside the right of the fairway and angles into the line of play, and features a deep but narrow green with several bunkers left; and the 15th, right alongside the sea, a gently doglegging right hole of 266 yds where the golfer has to fit a tee shot in between the beach left and several fairway bunkers right. Those steering away from the large and deep greenside bunker right will find a green that shrugs off shots left; a simple hole if played as a long-iron/pitch, but fun for those trying to drive the green.

As a new member of Crail I've spent the last couple of weeks playing there nearly every day.  I agree with you on 1 and 9 ( a really, really good example) but would rate the 7th ahead of the 15th.  A blind tee shot from the forward tees or a drive to a plateau from the whites.  Then the hole turns sharp left to a green that runs away from you so severely that you're better off through the green than on it 15 feet short of the hole.

Mark:

I actually like the 7th as well, one of my favorites there. I have it listed at 347 yds, and tried to keep examples to the listed yardage of under 330 yds. But 7th is a very good hole as well; I enjoyed the fun of that blind tee shot.

[Kirk Stewart]

The 16th at Atlanta National Golf Club..I am very biased, however, due to my 2 double eagles.

I wish someone could post the overhead of the hole from msn maps. David Toms did a bunker lesson pictorial in Golf Digest on the 16th and unfornuately lost those photos as well. Cool hole where a 1 or 7 is possible.

[Chip Gaskins]

Chip - Hows about #6 at Kingsbarn or #16 at Prestwick?

I have not played Kingsbarns and yes I forgot Prestwick #16, which is good but #17 is better, all be it a little past the yardage discussed.

also missed Pine Barrens #15...that is a great hole too

[Jeff Fortson]

There is but one......   

Riviera #10.


Jeff F.

Jeff, come on, I love the 10th at Riviera, but what about 9 at CPC?

9 at CPC is fantastic.  10 at Riviera is the best strategic short par-4 ever, IMO.  Or, at least, I haven't seen better yet.

Here is a link to a thread I did on Riviera #10 on here back in '04 I think.  It's missing a couple pictures now that used to be there but the meat of it is still there.

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,16619.msg289255.html#msg289255


Jeff F.

[Ronald Montesano]

#5 at Country Club of Buffalo-Ross skirts the edge of the quarry that surrounds the volcanic par three 6th.  Bunkers up the left side of the fairway and green are shared with the par five fourth hole.  The green has four to five vertically-distinct hole locations.  It plays about 300 yards from the tips.

The 2nd hole of the Blue nine at Buck Hill Golf Club goes 286 all the way back, with the last 10 being flat.  The fairway has a distinctive roll in the middle, then uphill to that final flat.  If you hit into the hill, you'll Dave Pelz straight up and gain no forward yardage.  The green slopes left to right with a gathering bunker to the right of the green.

The 14th at Arrowhead near Buffalo (Scott Witter design) is a swell hole with a lake up the right and OB out left.  A four iron from the tips will leave you a bunt wedge in, but driver will get you to the green, as our varsity golfers have proven in the past.

The 6th on the Waring nine at Shawnee, sadly, is a boring little hole.  I was excited to see it listed at 297, but found it to not have much.  Even when I went pin hunting and missed the green left, I had a straightforward little pitch/chip and made par.

[Jed Peters]

Crystal Downs has four great short 4's, two of which (the 15th and 17th) are under 330 yards.  I have never seen anybody drive either one of them, although Ian Baker-Finch did come close on 17.  That hole has actually gotten better now that a tree has been removed and players are more tempted to think about hitting driver ... even though I still pull out a 3-iron on the tee in most conditions.

Tom:

You speak quite a bit on how well Crystal Downs defends par, and how not many go low there.

This may be a bit off topic, but how many good players actually play there?

[Anthony Fowler]

Without having played it, I think 17 at Oakmont (which has been already mentioned) deserves some more discussion on this site.  I think the brilliance is that there are a lot of options and none of them are a bargain, which makes even the best players do things they shouldn't like Furyk hitting driver when he had no place to hit it.

The 4th at TPC Boston is another interesting one which is fun to play and even more fun to see the tour players struggle with.  Like 17 at Oakmont, the layup is no bargain.  Even the members out there say they can't figure out how to best play the hole.  A strong downside in my opinion is that there is a big distance advantage on this hole.  If you can carry the ball green high or past the hole is much easier than for us little guys.  The same is not true for 17 at Oakmont or many of the other great ones already mentioned.

3 at Rustic Canyon. 

[Terry Thornton]

In Australia

10 West Royal Melbourne.
4 Barnbougle
3 Royal Adelaide
15 Victoria
13 Portsea
1 Royal Melbourne East
12 Barnbougle
3 Kingston Heath.

Great list of holes Mike, Barnbougle 12 is my favourite short 4 in Oz. I could never decide if #10 The Lakes was a 'better than good' hole, did your recent work there impact that hole at all?

[Sean_A]

Assuming we are talking from the back tees:

16 Aberdovey
6 Deal ?
9 Beau Desert
8 Cruden Bay ?
3 Cruden Bay
6 Michigan

And the grand daddy of them all, Kington's 18th.



Ciao

[Scott Macpherson]

HI Sean,

So where is that photo from?

scott

[Sean_A]

HI Sean,

So where is that photo from?

scott

Sorry Scott, its Kington's 18th.  About a 290 yarder that is about as much fun playing as any hole I have seen.  In fact, Kington is loaded with short par 4s where getting in position is essential for dealing with the greens.

Ciao

[Mike_Clayton]

Terry,

10 at The Lakes is one of the scariest tee shots in golf.
It is a terrific hole but its about 350 yards and often it plays 2 iron,5 iron or even more.
That takes it out of the group of holes I nominated which are all drivable.

We haven't got to the back nine yet and we won't be changing that hole too much although we are going back to the original arrangement of the 1st tee being down low on the water and the 10th being higher up the hill.

13 will be the really short dangerous hole on the back nine and that might be a beauty if we get it right. It will be under 300 yards.
We have finished the front 9 and 6 in particular has turned into a really good short (360 yards about) par 4.

[Terry Thornton]

Thanks Mike,

would have guessed #10 at being about 280m, there you go.

I'm guessing there might be some trimming done on the inside of the dogleg at #13

I've only seen the course from the road since your work started, looks wild and woolly in places

[Mike_Clayton]

Terry.

Most likely we are going to bring the green out from behind the trees so you can see it from the tee. Aside from the geat 3rd at Royal Adelaide all my holes have a visible green from the tee.

The front nine is a lot different!

[Sean_A]

I can't believe I forgot about The Island with arguably two great short two shotters under 300 yards long from the back.  #s6 & 8. 

Its seems criminal not to be able to mention the 14th at 337 yards.  This is easily one of the most intimidating short par 4s I have ever played.  The fairway can't be more than 15 yards wide.  It doesn't matter which club you choose from the tee, its still scarey knowing that water is right and gunge is left.  This may be the original RTJ template!

Ciao

[Tim Gavrich]

I know its green is bland, but I think #9 at TOC is quite exciting, given the fact that one needs to carve a drive a little bit in order to get on the putting surface.

For those who love 1, 7, and 9 at Crail-Balcomie, what about 15?  I think it too is a fantastic short hole that rewards boldness off the tee, due to the OB that lurks left of the green for anyone who pulls his shot a little too much.

I played an outstanding short par 4 at Manchester (CT) CC yesterday.  Hopefully I'll be able to go into greater detail on it today or tonight.

I liked #11 at Sunningdale Old (heck, I like everything at Sunningdale), but I find #s 3 and 9 to be superior drivable par 4s.

Cuscowilla #5 was mentiond, but how about #12?  It's another really good little hole...possibly great.]

I think my favorite drivable par 4 of all, though, is #15 at TPC River Highlands.  It's so thoroughly interesting: a little room for those who want to give it a go, a challenging layup, fantastic green with numerous excellent pin positions.  But I would venture that is gets overlooked by those who disdain the TPC brand.

[Mike Demetriou]

The 13th at Kingsley is an incredible short par four. 285 from the back, but the green is well defended by a gaping bunker in front. 

[Jim Nugent]

7 at Olympic.  18, too, though I'm not sure it's under 330. 

10 at The Belfry. 

What did you guys think of 14 at Torrey, when they played the 267-yard tee? 

[Anthony Fowler]

What did you guys think of 14 at Torrey, when they played the 267-yard tee? 

Jim, I didn't particularly care for this one.  Torrey desperately needs a good short par 4 but I don't think this was the place to do it.  First, I just think that 14 is a great hole as is.  Second, there's not enough incentive IMO to go at the green which is why they had to make the hole so short to get people to go at it.  From that distance, players could hit 7 iron - lob wedge and give themselves very good birdie chances while taking on no risk whatsoever.  I think it would have been more interesting if they had made the hole longer (~310), they had opened up the bailout area to the right of the green, and narrowed the fairway in the bailout area.

[Jason McNamara]

Sean, no mention of 18 at Llandrindod Wells?

[Paul Nash]

The 18th at Kington looks fantastic.

The 8th at Bearwood Lakes is a great hole - the risk/ reward option is quite dangerous if you get it wrong - you have to go over the edge of the water on the left and inside the tree to the edge of the water unless you have a great hook - and, there is lots of natural heather growing down the right side of the the hole after cutting back a lot of gorse and Rhododendrons which, especially at the moment, makes it very pretty

[Doug Wright]

Cherry Hills #1
Sand Hills #7
Ballyneal #7
Pacific Dunes #6
Black Mesa #7
Grandote Peaks #4
Cruden Bay #3
Golspie #5

Each features either small and/or very difficult (sometimes wild!) and/or elevated greens that make these holes fun and challenging every time out.

Agree with the comments above re Crail Balcomie and Boat of Garten (a course that, despite only one playing, grows on me with each time I think about it for its variety and use of the terrain--I thought the 5th was the best short par 4 due to the terrain around the elevated green, followed by the Gully 15th).  I'm not so sure about the short par 4s at Prestwick. The opener is a nice little hole but I'm not crazy about 15, 16 or 18. I wouldn't call them "great."

[Chris Kane]

I know its green is bland, but I think #9 at TOC is quite exciting, given the fact that one needs to carve a drive a little bit in order to get on the putting surface.

C'mon Tim - on any other top 100 course on the planet, this hole would be changed by now.  Its only exciting because one has a reasonable eagle opportunity almost every time they play it.  When thinking of the qualities which define a great par-4, this one has none of them.   

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