[Dan_Callahan]

For those who are at Oakland Hills, if you get close to Phil Mickelson can you ask him a question for me? Watching the live feed this morning while at work, I am wondering if the fabric for Sergio's ridiculously huge collars was taken from Phil's sleeves. He looks like an idiot, sporting a shirt with sleeves that are about half the length of a normal design. It's one thing for a guy like Villegas to go that route to show off his guns, but Phil just looks like an overweight, middle age dork in a shirt that is way too tight. I know he claims to be working out more often these days, but the results just aren't there.

[Matt_Ward]

Sean:

With all due respect -- wake up from the fog your in.

The point is a simple one -- the hole uses land originally meant as a par-5.

Your decision for a tee shot play is then affected -- even subconsciously -- by such a designation.

Change it a longer par-4 and the land characteristics remain the same -- the hole turning one way the fairway the other.

You may not understand this but when organizations routinely change par designations to keep down the potential for
total sub-par scores the net result speaks for itself. It's a contrivance that takes away from what Ross originally meant.

[Jay Flemma]

You're both right...the land was meant as a par-5.  but also, for certain supermortals, the hole is a par-4.  Lets call it 4.5 and enjoy it!

...a good par 4.5.  Isn't that one of the hall marks of a good hole.

[Chuck Brown]

I hope Jasy won't mind my sayaing that I just got off the telephone with him; he's doing his work, on the course at OHCC, and I am doing my work, in my law office in Ann Arbor.  "It must suck to be you," is the phrase that comes to mind.  Or perhaps, "Nice work if you can get it."

Anyway, since Jay is not at a keyboard and I am, I am trying to make plans to have dinner with him, probably at Hogan's Restaurant, and probably on Friday evening.  If anyone is interested, send me a PM.

[Jay Flemma]

Right back atya, Chuck.  What kind of lawyer are you by the way?
I'm entertainment, sports aNd I.P./Internet

Chuck, rees said the problem for the members isn't the SECOND bunker on 15,
its that he grew the rough in to pinch in the landing are

especially on the right, where most of the members used to play.  he said when the
tourney's over, mow the orugh and hit it where you always did.  he said the only
members affected by the secoind bunker are the long hitting ones.

[Ryan DeMay]

More pictures.

The long par 3 at Hole 9.


Hole 10 from the tee.


Hole 11 tee shot


Hole 11 from the end of the landing area.


Hole 11 green complex.


Hole 12 from approximately 150 yards out.


Hole 13 from the tee.

[Chuck Brown]

I am looking forward to pics of 15.  Thank you SO MUCH for these pictures and some wonderful angles inside the ropes.

And Jay, thank you so much for getting my question to Rees Jones.  He is right about the mowing lines.  I understand what he is saying.  For my part, I still object to his altreration of the bunker(s).  I am convinced that if we asked 20 tour players what they thought, about 10 of them would say, "What are we supposed to do there?"  And about nine of the remaining 10 would say, "Whatever; it is just awful."

And I say again, in all fairness to Rees Jones, the real problem is not with his alterations, which are for the most part thoughtful  and aesthetically faithful reactions to extremes in technologically-produced distance.  The real problem are the distances themselves.  I won't blame Rees Jones until I find out that he is working for Dick Rugge.   

Isn't 11 a great golf hole?  I don't know of any serious player or serious student of golf course architecture who doesn't come away from their first encounter with it and think of 11 as a kind of Monet, or Vermeer, among golf holes.

[Bob_Huntley]

Jay,

Thank you, a solid piece.

However, you wrote,

"The last two major winners have been downright zany. Czaban wrote, "the entire 1985 U.S. Open should be stricken from the record books completely," as a statistical outlier and a deadly bore. Unknown Taiwanese player T.C. Chen not only led the Open for three days, but was running away with it before taking the now infamous quadruple-bogey 8, where he double-hit a greenside chip for a two-stroke penalty. His four-shot lead vanished in a heartbeat like a rabbit in a conjuring trick. Andy North, who won a grand total of three tournaments in his PGA Tour career -- but two of them U.S. Opens -- held off Chen -- now known forever as "Two-Chip" instead of "Tse-Chung" -- and a bunch of career bit players like Dave Barr and Denis Watson. The real star that year was the golf course, which confounded everyone by playing harder than the previous years' Opens at Winged Foot, Oakmont, Pebble Beach, Merion, Baltusrol, Inverness, and Cherry Hill respectively. Even par was the winning score."

With respect,  Denis Watson won three times in 1984 and I believe was second on the money list after Tom Watson. In fact, if you could take away the hysterical actions of USGA Committee Man, one Montford-Johnson, who jumped from the gallery and imposed a two stroke penalty on Watson for waiting longer than ten seconds for his ball to drop, which it did, he would have beaten North by a shot. Tim Simpson, Watson's playing competitor, angrily called the official to task by claiming that the ball was still moving, which was true.

I understand that the USGA has reduced the two stroke penalty to one stroke.

Bob

[Jay Flemma]

Denis Watson may have been more well known than chen or barr,
that's for certain, Bob.

And yes, that penalty was bogus...needless controversy
and handwringing - another reason czabe may be right about
erase the '85 open as a statistical outlier.

[Jim Nugent]

Bob, wasn't Watson on the cusp of greatness, when injury slowed him down? 

[Jay Flemma]

He has also been hampered by serious injury, no question, but still had
few career wins and not too great a showing in majors.

Nice man though.  He won a golf writers award last year for something.

[Bob_Huntley]

Jim,

I truly believe he was. For such a robust man his injury list was quite amazing. He may well disagree with me but I think his Zen-like macrobiotic diet didn't help.

Bob

[Jerry Kluger]

Jay: Are they allowing metal spikes - who is using them?

[Michael Dugger]

I really love the look from the tee on the 11th hole.



Cool mowing lines (look for the little flags) and the bunkers are arranged wonderfully. 

Anyone know if you can blast it over the entire corner of the first group of sand?

[Chuck Brown]

I can't.  I suppose there was some thought of that, hence a new, way-way back tee was built in neverland, almost off the golf course property next to a home that used to be owned by Red Wings great and NHL hall of famer Ted Lindsey.
But they aren't even using that tee this week.  The direction of the hole is due north, and there is almost never a wind from that direction.  In fact, this afternoon the wind was out of the NNW.
The play on 11 is to the left, which is a better angle into the green anyway.

[Jay Flemma]

Jerry, I think they are, but I'll triple check tomorrow.

Michael, that picture is really zoomed in.  Nobody I saw was carrying them.
If you look to the left, you'll see where they were coming in from.  I think it
might be too difficult to hold that green, it slopes severely left.

[Chuck Brown]

Yeah, in the picture above, because of the optical compression created by the lens length, you don't realize that it is, I'm estimating, 80 yards from where the person is walking, to where the last bunker is.  I know the first two bunkers all too well.   The last one isn't even in my dreams.

[Jay Flemma]

But you're right, it's a great hole.

I tihkn the key to OHCC is the routing...its fantastic.

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