[Ran Morrissett]

The Ocean Course at Cabo del Sol  is considered by one and all to be among Nicklaus Design’s finest few works (in fact, if you give Muirhead routing credit for Muirfield Village, it is surprisingly the only Nicklaus Design in GOLF’s current world top 100).

Re: the course of the week, Oakland Hills, most seem to consider it among Ross’s best, generally after only Seminole and Pinehurst.

Though Oakland Hills has been (savagely) tampered with, it is not unreasonable to compare one of Ross’s best with one of Nicklaus’s.

The rub is always how do you do so. The Morrissett fallback position has always been match play, first hole to first, second to second, etc.

Barring that, one must establish criteria – and that is where it becomes subjective. Obviously the ones below reflect my personal (though highly correct ) biases.

Which course has:

*more half par holes were a great number of events can occur (both heroic and tragic)?
* a greater variety of hazards (and therefore recovery options)?
* more wind and more different stances with which to contend?
* which has more playing angles/options off the tee?
* which course has more standout holes?
* what about ground game options? Without them, how much fun could any course be for a junior or senior (or anyone in between in my book)?

These are leading questions, with the answers evident. For instance, with its lack of width, Oakland Hills can’t possibly have a hole as interesting as the third at Cabo.
 
To be fair and shape it the other way, Oakland Hills clearly has some of the best interior green contours anywhere in world golf and a very rich history. As they say, it is a great (yawn) test. It's also an easier walk.

Ultimately, though, after  recovering from arroyos and pitching up from a beach and hitting shots that rode the wind on reachable half par holes, I have been freshly reminded from our 1996 trip there just how great the hazards/playing strategy/variety are at The Ocean Course at Cabo del Sol. It encourages bold, aggressive golf of the sort that a narrow parkland course simply can’t compete, regardless of the outstanding quality of its greens.

Have a look at the course profile and see what you think on t.v. today, but I’d rather be having a go at the fourth at Cabo in two (check out that photo!) even if I end up against a cactus than hacking out of thick rough between trees.

Cheers,

[Greg Tallman]

Everything is fabulous apart from your golfing model... looks as though he may want to lay off the mexican breakfasts and cervezas!

[Sean Leary]

Is Cabo del Sol unquestionably the best desert course in the world?

That 5th hole must have been incredible visually before the hotel went in.

[Greg Tallman]

Is Cabo del Sol unquestionably the best desert course in the world?

That 5th hole must have been incredible visually before the hotel went in.

Sean, To hear my predecessor gush about the hole pre hotel... i would say you have it pegged correctly.

Not to say it is anything but an execellent hole now... just the VISUALS are not as great, nothing to do with the playabiltiy... isn't this the site where it is all playability and the peripheral visuals are not important  not that I agree.

I need to dig up some old photography of this hole and post.

[Noel Freeman]

I hate to sound like a Pavlovian dog but I'm surprised by the muted response to this review.. Mainly because reading it made be salivate.  I truly wonder if this will be Nicklaus' best course as Ran alludes.  What has me excited about this is not the stunningness of the interaction b/t desert and sea (along with golf) but the 5 half par holes in the interior of  the course.. That sounds like fun and it sounds like Jim Lipe deserves a lot of the credit for that.  My experience from Deal where there are 3-4 half par holes depending on the vagaries of the wind how much joy it can bring..

Is there any other course where the desert and sea interact like here?  I know there has been a lot of building around Cabo but the only other places where I think you'd see this are the Skeleton Coast of Namibia, Western Australia and parts of Chile..

[Sean_A]

Noel

I haven't said much even though I have had a good look at the pix is because I hate the look of this place.  The lines between desert and course are too stringent for my liking.  Since all I have are pix and I have never been to Cabo, the look is all I can comment on.  I wouldn't seek this place out for golf, but I can see where it would be tremendously popular.

Ciao

[PThomas]

note to self:  get to Cabo del Sol during one of the damn Chicago winters!

[Noel Freeman]

Noel

I haven't said much even though I have had a good look at the pix is because I hate the look of this place.  The lines between desert and course are too stringent for my liking.  Since all I have are pix and I have never been to Cabo, the look is all I can comment on.  I wouldn't seek this place out for golf, but I can see where it would be tremendously popular.

Ciao

Sean- can you define what you mean by stringent.. All desert courses to my eye have these differences for the most part.. Well at least most of the ones in AZ or UT..

[Sean_A]

Noel

I haven't said much even though I have had a good look at the pix is because I hate the look of this place.  The lines between desert and course are too stringent for my liking.  Since all I have are pix and I have never been to Cabo, the look is all I can comment on.  I wouldn't seek this place out for golf, but I can see where it would be tremendously popular.

Ciao

Sean- can you define what you mean by stringent.. All desert courses to my eye have these differences for the most part.. Well at least most of the ones in AZ or UT..

Tuco

I think you are right and therin is my problem with desert golf - it just don't look right.  Though I have seen a few places which attempt to blend into the desert.  The vast majority of these places seem to be courses built on the desert rather than desert courses.  At least Cabo has the sea and manageable temps in the summer.   

Ciao

[Charles Scalzott]

I had the great pleasure of playing the ocean course while on my honeymoon last month.  What a fun golf course with some of the most beautiful vistas I've ever encountered.  Holes 5, 6, 7, 16, 17, and 18 are tremendous from a sensory exhilaration perpective as well as a shot quality perspective.  Many of interior holes are well done with optional tee shot angles/strategies.  It is a unique place in the world to see the ocean crash on the desert and it certainly was well utilized by Jack in his design.

[henrye]

There's no doubt that this is a visual stunner.  Good review.  From my perspective, it's the best in Cabo, although my son actually prefers the Weiskopf course.

I may be nitpicking and perhaps Greg can comment, but Ran says that the back to back par 3's play completely differently.  Each time I've played there (approx. 10 times over 12 years) I've found they both play remarkably similarly.  Yes, they both require a different iron, but I've found they are both generally into the wind.  Both are angled front right to back left.  Perhaps if they weren't back to back I would feel differently, but there ya go.

[Greg Tallman]

There's no doubt that this is a visual stunner.  Good review.  From my perspective, it's the best in Cabo, although my son actually prefers the Weiskopf course.

I may be nitpicking and perhaps Greg can comment, but Ran says that the back to back par 3's play completely differently.  Each time I've played there (approx. 10 times over 12 years) I've found they both play remarkably similarly.  Yes, they both require a different iron, but I've found they are both generally into the wind.  Both are angled front right to back left.  Perhaps if they weren't back to back I would feel differently, but there ya go.

Henry, Your son is not alone in his preference of The Desert Course, a course designed by Weiskopf(with the talents of Phil Smith) and reworked by that team at our request producing 5 new holes in 2005.

As for 6 and 7... you have had this discussion previously I believe with none other than Jim Lipe . Jim correctly stated that the holes play at totally different angles. I don't EVER recall #6 playing into the wind which is almost always right to left while #7 is almost always dead into the wind indicative of the 90° difference in playing angles.

The shape of green argument I can see but would point out that they do not play similarly in that at #6 you are encouraged to shape the ball to the back left pin versus carrying it there while on #7 you are REQUIRED to carry it to the back left position.

The new holes will render eliminate this discussion as the playing angle will be more evident and the hole designs totally different. These changes will further enhance an already special course and give the 17th a run for "signature hole" status... as if 16 and 18 do not already.   

[Kyle Henderson]

I played the Ocean and Arroyo nines at Palmilla, the neighboring Nicklaus course, when I was in Cabo. How (un)favorably does it compare to the Cabo Del Sol courses?

[henrye]

There's no doubt that this is a visual stunner.  Good review.  From my perspective, it's the best in Cabo, although my son actually prefers the Weiskopf course.

I may be nitpicking and perhaps Greg can comment, but Ran says that the back to back par 3's play completely differently.  Each time I've played there (approx. 10 times over 12 years) I've found they both play remarkably similarly.  Yes, they both require a different iron, but I've found they are both generally into the wind.  Both are angled front right to back left.  Perhaps if they weren't back to back I would feel differently, but there ya go.

Henry, Your son is not alone in his preference of The Desert Course, a course designed by Weiskopf(with the talents of Phil Smith) and reworked by that team at our request producing 5 new holes in 2005.

As for 6 and 7... you have had this discussion previously I believe with none other than Jim Lipe . Jim correctly stated that the holes play at totally different angles. I don't EVER recall #6 playing into the wind which is almost always right to left while #7 is almost always dead into the wind indicative of the 90° difference in playing angles.

The shape of green argument I can see but would point out that they do not play similarly in that at #6 you are encouraged to shape the ball to the back left pin versus carrying it there while on #7 you are REQUIRED to carry it to the back left position.

The new holes will render eliminate this discussion as the playing angle will be more evident and the hole designs totally different. These changes will further enhance an already special course and give the 17th a run for "signature hole" status... as if 16 and 18 do not already.   

Thanks Greg.  Look forward to the changes, although I really like #6.

[Duane Sharpe]

Kyle
Palmilla does not even compare to the ocean course!
Sharpee

[Greg Tallman]

Thanks Greg.  Look forward to the changes, although I really like #6.

You'll love the new hole... tees at the water's edge, tidal pool a few feet off the left edge of new green site.

You can imagine it only gets better if the guy that did most of the roiginal work (Jim Lipe) calls the current hole his favorite and is excited about changing it.

[Greg Tallman]

Hard to imagine blowing up such a beatiful hole...

[Greg Tallman]

Noel

I haven't said much even though I have had a good look at the pix is because I hate the look of this place.  The lines between desert and course are too stringent for my liking.  Since all I have are pix and I have never been to Cabo, the look is all I can comment on.  I wouldn't seek this place out for golf, but I can see where it would be tremendously popular.

Ciao

Sean,

While we are all different I can assure you you would be in a VERY VERY small group of persons on this earth that hate "the look" as it is among the most stunning visual scenes one can enjoy.

Why do we act as though manicured grasses are natural in a dunescape but ruin other sites? Where does near perfectly manicured grass of less than 1/2 inch appear naturally in the world?

[Ulrich Mayring]

Well, golf courses aren't natural, but some make a better run at looking the part than others. Of course aesthetics are highly subjective, but I can relate to the visual criticism. The course just does not belong there. In the real world there is very little green in the desert. So in order to make a visually fitting desert course, they'd have to make it brown.

Of course other people could care less about the harmony of the landscape, they are more into the spectacle of having something impossible right in front of them. They would like this course visually, I am sure.

Ulrich

[paul cowley]

Ulrich....I know where you are coming from and can respect your viewpoint, but its such a hardedge approach......like how do you reconsile houses and other structures in the 'natural' landscape?

Anything other than what naturally exists in an undisturbed environment will seem out of place.....you know what I mean?

[cary lichtenstein]

I played there many years ago and went away underwhelmed. I thought it was another Arizona desert course with the ocean as a backdrop. I thought the prices were outrages, it was a very difficult place to get to, the town was scary and have resisted going back.

[Greg Tallman]

I played there many years ago and went away underwhelmed. I thought it was another Arizona desert course with the ocean as a backdrop. I thought the prices were outrages, it was a very difficult place to get to, the town was scary and have resisted going back.

Cary, What was "scary" about the town? That is a rather general and harmful statement to make. When were you here?

Difficult to get to? Can you elaborate? Last I checked we had flights from nearly every major region in the US flying in daily.

By the way the your reference to "another Arizona desert course" is curious... did you contribute the sharpie blackouts on the thread discussing the influence of the bay at Pebble Beach #8? And to be accurate the sea is far more than a backdrop on the many of the holes.

By the way during a recent trip to Scottsdale and playing what many seem to consider among the best public golf in the area (Troon North) I left feeling it would be at the bottom of the food chain were it in Cabo.

At any rate that is why the world is so great, if we all liked the same things we would be fighting over the same woman (Rosanne) and competing for tee times on the same course (Trump National) before retiring for a drink at the same bar (Viper Room).

[Tom Huckaby]

Greg:

I am honored you remembered that Pebble Beach sharpie thread, as it was my creation.  It was #6 I did it about, but I do believe that's my lasting contribution to golf, so you made my day.   

As for cary's comments, he must have gone there prior to 1990 or something... at that point in time, the airport - and the drive through to get past San Jose del Cabo and on to Cabo San Lucas - could have been seen as "scary", at least for one used to posher places.  Methinks he'd be shocked to see how it is now....

Cabo remains one of my favorite places on earth, and Cabo del Sol one of my favorite golf destinations.  Sadly I can't get down there any more, this thing about kids cramping my style.  But I'll make it happen again some day. I have to.  Life is too short not to.

I am really looking forward to what gets done re #7 on the Ocean.  PLEASE post something when it's done.  Wow that was a great hole to begin with and if Jim Lipe says it's going to be better... it's beyond my imagination.

TH

[Greg Tallman]

Greg:

I am honored you remembered that Pebble Beach sharpie thread, as it was my creation.  It was #6 I did it about, but I do believe that's my lasting contribution to golf, so you made my day.   

As for cary's comments, he must have gone there prior to 1990 or something... at that point in time, the airport - and the drive through to get past San Jose del Cabo and on to Cabo San Lucas - could have been seen as "scary", at least for one used to posher places.  Methinks he'd be shocked to see how it is now....

Cabo remains one of my favorite places on earth, and Cabo del Sol one of my favorite golf destinations.  Sadly I can't get down there any more, this thing about kids cramping my style.  But I'll make it happen again some day. I have to.  Life is too short not to.

I am really looking forward to what gets done re #7 on the Ocean.  PLEASE post something when it's done.  Wow that was a great hole to begin with and if Jim Lipe says it's going to be better... it's beyond my imagination.

TH

Huck,

I knew the sharpie was not Cary's handywork but was trying to make a point.

I simply hate gringos labeling a place as "scary" or the like when they within an hour or so of perhaps as dangerous an area as exists outside of those areas afflicted with religion based wars.

As far as the changes, both 6 (pictured above) and 7 will be completely redesigned. I think you are referring to 6 rather than 7 as 6 is certainly the better of the holes today and while it gets better, far better, the new 7th may be the better of the back to back 3 pars once complete.

Side note: Woke up to a bit of rain today? After years down here this might be the first time I have woken up to falling rain not associated with a hurricane which is among the things that would fit into my definition of scary. 

[Tom Huckaby]

Greg - 6 it is!  And I fully understand re the sharpie comment - the point works here very much so.  Anyone who calls CdeS just another AZ course plays a game with which I am not familiar.

You were right to call him on the "scary" comment also; hell there are scarier parts here in San Jose, CA.

Stay out of the rain, my friend.

 

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