[Craig Sweet]

Hey Garland, you're just jealous that you're not over here too..

But then, you've got Pok Pok and we have Charlie B's...

[DMoriarty]

Dave...yeah the Ox still serves Brains and Eggs...not my cup of slop either...

Perhaps the coolest bar in Montana is the Sip N Dip in Great Falls....nearly every night you have Piano Pat on the keyboards (every tune sounds the same) and actual, live, mermaids  swimming in the tank behind the bar...classic!!

Know it well, but haven't been there for years. My drunken cousin jumped into the tank once in just her skivvies.  Not a pretty site.

[Kalen Braley]

One other question -- for those who have played other Doak layouts where would Rock Creek place?

Let me put it this way:  I haven't played Pacific Dunes, but if Pacific Dunes is better than this, I'll eat that scorecard too..

You'll eat the PD scorecard.

Being in Salt Lake City...I'm not too far off.  Perhaps a road trip really is in order.

[Craig Sweet]

Kalen...it's a fast 6 hour drive right up Interstate 15 to Butte, and then 25 miles west on I-90....see ya there!

It is well worth the trip....I can guarantee you that you have never played anything quite like RCCC..

[Kalen Braley]

Kalen...it's a fast 6 hour drive right up Interstate 15 to Butte, and then 25 miles west on I-90....see ya there!

It is well worth the trip....I can guarantee you that you have never played anything quite like RCCC..

This could turn into one of those 24 hr golf stories as mentioned on the other thread.....

Leave at 4 AM, get there by 10, back on the road at 5 or so...hmmm.

[Kalen Braley]

Shiv,

So where do you put RCCC in relation to some of the other greats you've played.

Dare say its in CPCs' and Sand Hills' league?

[Kalen Braley]

Shiv,

So where do you put RCCC in relation to some of the other greats you've played.

Dare say its in CPCs' and Sand Hills' league?

See Reply #50...

I saw that, not good enough.  I want to see names and corresponding numbers...so the fur can really fly!! 

[Jim Colton]

I don't know whether I want to kidnap Tommy D or clone him.  Just when I'm about to hopefully settle on one of his courses, he creates another must play.  I can't keep up.  Too many great courses, too little time.

[Sean Leary]

Shivas,

Have you played Ballyneal? I thought you were there recently. If so, is that in the same league as well?

[Michael Dugger]

a whole lot of enthusiasm over on this thread.......geez Shiv

Renaissance and C & C are lapping the field at this point, IMHO...

I gotta think it has something to do with the pieces of land they are selecting...

That's an awfully bold statement, but what's more flabbergasting is Doak et al entire portfolio of products.....

Pac
Bally
Sebo
Barn
Nappers
Ren and now...
Rock

[Kalen Braley]

Shiv,

That is really saying something because I really liked Pasa as well, especially the all world back 9.  If your telling me RCCC is that much better than Pasa then that really is saying something.

I'm off this weekend to play a different Doak course and am very much looking forward to that.  Perhaps I'll have to convince the boss to get one more hall pass to take a drive due north up to Montana!!

[Jim Nugent]

Don't forget, Kalen, I got to read the countenances of, and listen to comments from, 6 guys who had just seen Sand Hills for the first time (which is a borderline out-of-body experience) the day before, so I've got a decent feel for the reaction this place elicits.  It ain't just me...

Dave, how did those other six guys like Rock Creek compared to Sand Hills?  Do they, too, think both courses may be equally good?

Also, did your "nope" post mean you haven't played Ballyneal, or that you like Rock Creek more?   

[Tom_Doak]

Shivas:

I'm in Mexico working this week, so I've had to let your over-the-top praise for Rock Creek go unchecked.  Now, get a hold of yourself, man.

Why no uphill par-3?  I don't know exactly ... I guess the simple answer is that we had to cover a lot of ground to get up to the seventh tee and I wanted to get it over with so I didn't put a par-3 into the climb. 

#6 is a holdover from the original routing, but holes 1-5 were new when we abandoned the remote start (which would have had a par-3 at #2) ... I looked at a par-3 hole for the second half of #5, but the shot across the rocky valley on #4 had to be a tee shot, and that green site was obvious.  And then I figured out #5 and I had to include that.  So we needed three holes to get to that point, and I was struggling to come up with a way to do it that didn't feel like you were doing nothing but climbing the hill.  Eric Iverson actually came up with the routing for 1-2-3; I hadn't considered going that direction with #1, but that really worked well, and all of a sudden we didn't have an uphill par-3.

We've got one in Mexico if it's any consolation.

[Mike Hendren]

Big guitars, diamond rings.
Everybody's crazy 'bout the next big thing.
-Vince Gill

Then again, IIRC the last scorecard Shivas munched on was from National Golf Links of America!

[Garland Bayley]

a whole lot of enthusiasm over on this thread.......geez Shiv

Renaissance and C & C are lapping the field at this point, IMHO...

I gotta think it has something to do with the pieces of land they are selecting...

That's an awfully bold statement, but what's more flabbergasting is Doak et al entire portfolio of products.....

Pac
Bally
Sebo
Barn
Nappers
Ren and now...
Rock

Don't forget St. Andrews Beach and Beechtree in your assessment of progress.
 
And Pat asked me to ask you how many of the above you have played.

[Tom_Doak]

Garland:

St. Andrews Beach is EASILY in the ten best courses we've ever done, and you would find much sentiment among my associates to list in the our top five.  I am still confident that at some point the original owners' shell game will be sorted out and the course will be back in play under new management.


Shivas:

Your disclaimer is fine.  To be honest, whenever I hear someone gushing like you have been, I chalk it up to them discovering a new style of design which they really like.  I've heard people go over the top about a course like Mountain Lake or Yeamans Hall, and inevitably it's the first Raynor course they've seen.  Once they get to National or Fishers Island, they have a better perspective. 

I really hope everyone thinks Rock Creek is as good as you say it is -- we tried like Hell, and a bunch of boys had to spend many nights away from home eating in the same two restaurants in Deer Lodge, so that you never had to try them!

[Garland Bayley]

Garland:

St. Andrews Beach is EASILY in the ten best courses we've ever done, and you would find much sentiment among my associates to list in the our top five.  I am still confident that at some point the original owners' shell game will be sorted out and the course will be back in play under new management.

...

I most certainly hope that St. Andrews Beach gets it all together and comes back strong. However, current economics may throw a towel into the wringer.

[Jim Nugent]

a whole lot of enthusiasm over on this thread.......geez Shiv

Renaissance and C & C are lapping the field at this point, IMHO...

I gotta think it has something to do with the pieces of land they are selecting...

That's an awfully bold statement, but what's more flabbergasting is Doak et al entire portfolio of products.....

Pac
Bally
Sebo
Barn
Nappers
Ren and now...
Rock

Don't forget St. Andrews Beach and Beechtree in your assessment of progress.
 

With Old Mac on the way, and probably several others in the works too.   I still think Tom will end up with 10 courses in the world top 100 -- at least. 

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