[Tim Bert]

I don't think we disagree quite as much as you think.  I like the hole very much.  I don't think it is world class, but I don't have a problem with it as it stands.  I just think the left side could open up more interesting options that's all.

[Bob Jenkins]

Tim,

Not sure why, but this is my favourite BD hole. I love the hazard in the middle of the fairway which makes you think, not only on distance, depending on the wind, but also on which side to play to, which is generally the right. If the left side opened up a bit, it may become more interesting but that is beside the point. The approach shot, with the dunes on each side and with the green being right up against more bush including gorse right behind the hole, force you to play cautiously. I have had my second hit the front of the green and role over the back into the bush where I am in trouble but if playing a shorter iron, that may not have happened.

I think that the approach into a valley between the dunes is what I really like. The "feel" of this hole is unique, challenging and bloody well fun. Love it.

Bob J

[Pete_Pittock]

  The playable hole is much wider now than the original. The gorse just about hung over the geeen on the left side, and the last 100 yards in has been cleared back, pretty much for pace of play issues. I think the right side of the fairway on the drive has also had a cutback. I will check my photo stash in a couple of days.
  Not being exceptionally long I would try and drive to the right of the island in an attempt for a cut driver from the deck under the summer winds. Failing that, keep it in play for a texas wedge or a running pitch. Just keep me away from the gorse.

[David Botimer]

Huck

What are the merits of left?  I agree this hole isn't completely void of strategy, but I think you are over-stating. The only reason to aim left that I can tell is if there is a 30 mph crosswind in which case you aren't really planning to land there. Left is too small and doesn't create a preferred angle or view of the green.

Do indulge.

The merits of left are on average a 30-50 yard gain off the tee.  With the summer wind pushing hard to the right, aiming right comes at a significant yardage penalty.  Additionally, by going to the right oftentimes the tee shot is pushed to the right edge of the fairway which slopes up to the right edge.  This leaves a 200+ yard approach shot above a right-handers feet with wind in your face, yet slightly crossing.

The net effect is a .3 to .5 stroke increase for resort guests.  For my caddie advice, that is adequate merit to go left.

[Steve Kline]

Would the pace and number of comments on this thread tell you all you need to know about how good PD is compared to BD?

[Tim Bert]

Would the pace and number of comments on this thread tell you all you need to know about how good PD is compared to BD?

The number of replies - most definitely.

The pace says a lot more about Tim's free time and current work load.

[Tom Huckaby]

Would the pace and number of comments on this thread tell you all you need to know about how good PD is compared to BD?

I was waiting for someone to say this, and I call bullshit.  You ask a room full of people about one of their favorite courses, and then one that is pretty consisently denigrated, and then base the assessment on the quantity of responses?

Please.  Go have this same conversation in one of the bars at the resort and the quantity of response - and passion for each course - will be equal.

This ROOM loves Pacific, it's been made very clear over the years.  Also some of us - particularly me - just got kinda tired of dissecting golf holes each day - that can account for the lack of quantity even in here.

But drawing conclusion on the merits of the two courses based on these threads?  No way.

TH

[Kalen Braley]

I'm just wondering when this thread is going to move on to #6?   

I think the discussion #5 is pretty well baked and ready to come out of the oven !!

[Tim Bert]

Hole #6 is a par 3
161 from the black tee
153 from the green tee

#6 is probably one of the most photographed holes at the resort.  It sits near the cliff, and the view is incredibly scenic.  I think this is a good par 3 hole, but not a great one.  I prefer both of the par 3s on the back nine to this one.  The ocean is left, but it really shouldn't come into play here.  The green is extremely large.  Most of the size of the green comes from its depth rather than its width.

There is plenty of room short and right of the green.  The ball won't really feed to the green if it lands short, as the green is a bit elevated from the surounding terrain.  There are several different tee boxes (at least six that I'm aware of) so the markers can be moved around for some variety.  We've generally played the hole between 150 and 170 to the middle.  A back pin combined with the summer wind can easily make this feel like a 200+ yarder.

#6 caps the first streak of holes by the ocean at Bandon Dunes.  The course takes a turn inland after this one.

Several views from the tee








Pictures of the green




Two views from the 10th tee at Pacific Dunes







 

[Tim Bert]

Kalen asked when I was moving on to #6. I am assuming this got lost in the weekend shuffle. Surely someone has something to say about this hole.

I will be playing golf for several days so please take your time to respond. #7 will not be posted for a week.

By that time I should be hopelessly in love with Michigan golf. 

[Jeff Doerr]

Tim,

I've played this hole in a number of conditions and hit a variety of tee shots. What strikes me is the variety up on the putting surface. While it looks pretty plain from the tee, it's always been a hard read for me.

[Rob Rigg]

I have spoken to a decent number of people who have spent some time at Bandon and I would have to guess that about 30% have preferred BD to PD or BT.

These people are, for the most part, not GCA nuts but appreciate BD for its playability and the thrill they got out of playing a round in such a compelling environment.

On this site, as had been pointed out on numerous occasions, PD is a clear favorite, BD seems to get a lot of flak, and BT is certainly appreciated although not at PD status.

1) If David Kidd was an active member of the site, would people change their tune at all on BD?   

[Kalen Braley]

Ok OK, once again reviving this thread

Am I the only one who likes seeing hole by hole shots and people's input and analysis?  Hell if this isn't what this website is supposed to be about, then I don't know what is.   

[George Freeman]

looks like hole number 7 needs to be posted to get some fresh insight...

[John Kirk]

Before you move to #7, I believe #6 is the least desirable hole on the course, because it is nearly impossible in a strong summer afternoon breeze.  Although the hole is listed at 161, there is a tee box which goes back to at least 195.  Although they did expand the grass short and right to accommodate imperfect tee shots, it's still not enough.  It's very windy on the ocean's edge, the hole is out in the open, and it's not unusual to see a 25-35 mile per hour wind at 3 PM on an August day.  THe wind usually quarters, into your face, left to right, and you have only two options, a low, boring iron, straight or draw, or to start the ball out over the beach and let it drift back.

If you miss pin high right in the scrub, the recovery is exrtremely difficult, a long sand shot which flies up to the perched green.

The last time I played under these conditions, double bogey won the hole in a best ball with four low handicappers.

Under less strenuous circumstances, teh hole is quite enjoyable, and a good shot onto the gree is very satisfying.

[Carl Nichols]

Last June, I played BD once, BT once, and PD twice.  Oddly, this is one of the few holes I can barely remember -- and I have absolutely no recollection about how I played it.  Not sure what that means, except that it obviously didn't leave an impression (good or bad) on me.

[Scott Weersing]

The sixth hole is simple if you can hit the green. I have only played it in the winter when it plays downwind. The problem with the hole is that it is difficult to miss the green and still get up and down for par. The only safe place to miss is long as there is a lot of room back there. But you can't see it from the tee. The elevated green also makes it difficult to bump a shot up to the green.

While it is a scenic hole, if the hole was in the middle of the woods on Bandon Trails, it would not be a memorable hole. While I don't like elevated greens, the sixth hole does add variety to the course as it is one of the few elevated greens on the course.

[Tim Bert]

Before you move to #7, I believe #6 is the least desirable hole on the course, because it is nearly impossible in a strong summer afternoon breeze.  Although the hole is listed at 161, there is a tee box which goes back to at least 195.  Although they did expand the grass short and right to accommodate imperfect tee shots, it's still not enough.  It's very windy on the ocean's edge, the hole is out in the open, and it's not unusual to see a 25-35 mile per hour wind at 3 PM on an August day.  THe wind usually quarters, into your face, left to right, and you have only two options, a low, boring iron, straight or draw, or to start the ball out over the beach and let it drift back.

If you miss pin high right in the scrub, the recovery is exrtremely difficult, a long sand shot which flies up to the perched green.

The last time I played under these conditions, double bogey won the hole in a best ball with four low handicappers.

Under less strenuous circumstances, teh hole is quite enjoyable, and a good shot onto the gree is very satisfying.

This is an interesting perspective, and a very different one than I've observed.  We've played all of our rounds in the summer wind - some mild and some very strong.  This is the only hole on the entire course where no one in our group has ever posted worse than double bogey.  The hole is the third easiest in relation to par for our group - only #9 and #10 play easier for us. 

[Alan Gard]

I'm sure if we played it from 195, we'd have made worse than double bogey!

I think we've also benefitted from playing mostly to the front pin position which allows for one or two less clubs than the back pin.  From what I remember the green is very flat so that once you get there, you have a straightforward putt (very few three putts here).  Finally, there isn't any interesting bunkering to cause one to lose extra shots.  As long as one doesn't lose the tee shot, bogey is a pretty easy score here.

Certainly, this is a very picturesque hole.  However, it doesn't excite me as much after multiple plays, and I'm not a big fan of basically retracing my steps to get back to the #7 tee box.

[Tim Bert]

Now that my side project of Kingsley is complete I'm going to get back on the horse here and finish this one (at least before my trip to Bandon next summer.)

I'll try to get #7 up this weekend.

[Ian_L]

I'm very excited to see this thread come back to life, since I played the courses for the first time last December. 

As for the conversation on #5, my dad is a short but fairly accurate hitter who played from the yellow tees.  He successfully hit down the left side and was able to lay up into a convenient pitch at the green.  It was definitely an interesting hole for him.

I didn't like #6 as much as most of the other holes on the course.  It almost felt like the elevated green focused the attention away from the cliffs and ocean on the left side.  Not a bad hole, but maybe not the best use of the cliff edge.

[Jim Tang]

Bandon is a solid course.  I think people sometimes forget how good the course is because of PD.  Remember, when Bandon opened up it was all the rage, considered by many to be a tremendous golf course. 

I love PD, it is my favorite golf course.  But Bandon is pretty solid too and has some really great golf holes.

[David Botimer]

I think several things make 6 a great hole:

Kidd's comments about building BD included "I imagined the routing having the structure of a symphony - a strong start, a sense of anticipation, small crescendos, and an incredible finishing sequence along the Pacific".

Along that vain, 6 is the end of the first small crescendo, i.e. the hole 4-6 stretch which I believe is the best 3 hole stretch on the course.

Secondly, it provides what can be a great test of club pulling on the tee because it is one of the windiest spots on BD and headed straight into the wind.

Thirdly, #6 is a prelude to the hardest hole on the course, #15.  15 has an elevated SMALLER green with a LOT of trouble lurking (if you've ever been in the devils a--hole you won't forget it!), plus it is more angled (crossing) into the wind adding to the challenge.

Lastly, #6 green is big enough with a fair amount of undulation leaving many with a long and challenging first putt, and because of the wind may require factoring that into the putt.

[Eric_Terhorst]

As for the conversation on #5, my dad is a short but fairly accurate hitter who played from the yellow tees.  He successfully hit down the left side and was able to lay up into a convenient pitch at the green.  It was definitely an interesting hole for him.

For those bigger hitters missing the strategic options of #5, Ian's is an apt description of how many players--either because of a short or mediocre drive, or because of strong north winds--choose to play this 4.5 par.  It's really an interesting hole to play as a 3-shotter, as you have a decision to make about how far up the neck to go with your second, then what to do with your third. 

On my last play, two of us lay side-by-side in 2 shots, about 105 from a back flag, playing into a good breeze.   I hit a Todd Hamilton special, bunting a fairway metal along the ground and watching with great pleasure as it fed left off the undulating turf front right, and settled within 10 feet.  My opponent hit a wedge, ended up short left, with a long road to that back pin.  I missed my putt for par, but he three-putted, so one hole for me. 

Mine was a lucky shot in many ways--for one thing, I did not foresee it veering left from the right-hand side of the green and was actually trying to hit it straight at the flag--but I think the runner is a far higher percentage shot there than an aerial shot.  But if you're more comfortable with the latter, try another option--there are plenty of choices on #5. 

In general, I find Bandon Dunes a blast to play, generally requiring less precision than PD or BT both in tee shot placement and around the greens, but never so easy as to be boring.

[Will MacEwen]

In general, I find Bandon Dunes a blast to play, generally requiring less precision than PD or BT both in tee shot placement and around the greens, but never so easy as to be boring.

I think it would be tough to play 8 straight rounds at PD/BT if the weather is tough.  BD lets you relax a little bit.  For me, it mixes in well with the other courses.  If I am fighting my swing, BT and especially PD can eat me up and spit me out in no time flat.

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