News:

Welcome to the Golf Club Atlas Discussion Group!

Each user is approved by the Golf Club Atlas editorial staff. For any new inquiries, please contact us.


RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O/T Grounding putter
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2008, 12:00:53 PM »
I'm in complete agreement with Clint and Jeremy.

John states:
Quote
The point of this rule is that it eliminates any argument about what caused the ball to move.  No need to discuss it, you had addressed the ball, it moved, you are penalized.  Next time think before you put that putter on the ground.
and

Also Decision 18-2b/4 says that if the putter has been grounded, but the stance not completed and there is strong evidence that the ball was moved by THE WIND or something else, there is NO PENALTY!  I think there would have been pretty strong evidence in those cases today.

In the first paragraph, JVB takes the hard line and inflexibility of a rules official (which he rightfully so, is) unsimpathetic with the whole circumstance and absurdity that some advantageis gained if that ball happended to "oscilate or move slightly", tough cookie - the rules are the rules...  ;) ;D ::)

But, in citing the second (again as the knowledgeable rules official) points out one 'mitigating' exception or decision that can 'help' the player, by trying to find the slight technicality that the putter may have been grounded behind the ball, but the stance was not fully taken or committed to, as an 'out' to sufffering this unfortuitous if not unjust penalty. 

the point really seems to me that greens speeds and green slopes architecturally, and such, where 'the wind' is reasonably deemed to have have oscillated or got the ball rolling away from the previous point of mark or rest, ON THE GREEN,  is inoccuous to the ultimate challenge of the next stroke (if properly replaced to the original spot) and no advantage could ever be gained, by this having happened.  And furthermore, that the arbitrary time between grounding the club as described, yet not taking the full stance to stroke, and the time to take the full stance is also insignificant to the issue, and if that ball oscillated when the ball was oscillated in the grounding, before or after the stance gave no real advantage, yet one is penalized and one is not. 

It is a stupid rule, and like we saw, unjust in how the am player at the Masters got the penalty, and yesterday, was loosely enforced at the Open, with all the grounding, step aways from stance after it moving, regrounding, did he or not take a stance again and it moved, etc.  Just silly nattering about an innocuous event that gave no one advantage in its occurance, yet makes the game pedantic and off-putting to most common sense people. 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Patrick_Mucci

Re: O/T Grounding putter
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2008, 09:02:38 PM »

Just curious Jeremy, Are you saying that downward pressure behind a ball cannot cause it to move?

If it does move, it would probably move backwards, which wouldn't assist the player or improve his lie.

We were discussing this today, in the context of the extremely windy conditions, perhaps a local rule could be established when the wind gets that strong.

JohnV

Re: O/T Grounding putter
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2008, 09:26:52 PM »
Patrick,

Depends if the ball is above the hole or not.  Once the ball starts moving, it could roll down towards the hole.  In the Christy Kerr incident the ball moved 20 feet or more.  It was away from the hole because she had an uphill putt, but it could just as easily been towards the hole.

On the second hole at Oakmont at the US Am in 2003, a player lifted, cleaned and replaced his ball.  It was at rest.  Before he grounded his club it started moving and went into the hole for a nice 2.

The rule could be removed, after all, they got rid of 18-2c which got you a penalty if the ball moved any time after you moved a loose impediment within a club length and changed things so that you are only penalized if the movement of the LI caused the movement.  Just keep 18-2a and get rid of 18-2b.  Then we can argue with the player about whether he caused the ball to move or not.

C. Squier

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: O/T Grounding putter
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2008, 09:52:00 PM »
On the second hole at Oakmont at the US Am in 2003, a player lifted, cleaned and replaced his ball.  It was at rest.  Before he grounded his club it started moving and went into the hole for a nice 2.


What is silly is that had he NOT marked his ball, yet waited more than 10 seconds by it, he would have been penalized.  We have that rule to save time, yet we watched players take FOREVER over a ball this weekend because of the wind. 

Do we really have the rule because of the handful of courses or so in the world with quick enough greens that'll allow a ball to roll more than a few inches or even a foot?   

Tags:
Tags:

An Error Has Occurred!

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()
Back