[Thomas MacWood]

I understand the thrill in seeing it revived and cared for, but as the years go by it has become more Rees and much less Tillinghast. That is not a good exchange IMO.

Tom,

Not a good exchange for who?  Does the glory of the Black bring in more funds that help preserve historical design on the other courses.  Would you agree the new Black would make Moses proud and is a tribute to his vision.  What I like is that these huge bunkers have the feel of massive New York infrastructure.

JK
Not a good exchange architecturally for the golf course. With all due respect to Rees Jones, he is not in the same class as Tillinghast talent-wise. And at the rate we are going the course will be all Rees by 2020. It would probably make Moses proud, but unfortunately he did not play golf.

[Mike Sweeney]

It seems then that you are arguing that the more subtle hazard is the more interesting one. 

YES, IN THIS ONE SPOT AT LEAST, IT HAS YALE LIKE QUALITIES AND AS YOU PROBABLY KNOW yALE HAS ONLY ONE FAIRWAY BUNKER. HOWEVER THE 18TH AT YALE FAIRWAY BUNKER IS LONG GONE AND FROM OLD PICTURES RMINDS ME OF THIS ONE. WHAT IS THE POINT FOR BOTH, LET THE NATURAL TERRAIN DO THE WORK.

Would this be your view if Rees' bunkers were more visually appealing (or looked more like a Tilly bunker) ?

I don't have a problem with BB bunkering in general, but I dont like the look of this new one on 9.

I prefer Rees' work on #4, but maybe the grow in needs some time:



In reference to Tilly, I honestly don't know what a Tilly bunker looks like. See Newport, San Francisco and the old BB. They are all very very different, so I don't have a problem with the Rees bunkering on BB.

[John Kavanaugh]

Rees pays tribute to Tilly in the article I referenced above.  He has not touched the true genius of the course...the routing.  To say that Rees is less talented than Tilly is folly if you look at both mens work over a span of a lifetime.  As a golfer and not an accountant I will take a Ress restoration over a Tillinghast restorative budget cut every time.

Tillinghast removed more character and quirk from Baltusrol in the name of creating a major championship venue than Ress ever has.  In the name of the PGA how many courses did Tilly bland up?  Is there ever a consistent vision in Tillies work outside of his routing genius?  They are both great architects who deserve more than tearing one down to build the other up.

[John Kavanaugh]

I just found this description of what one man thinks is poor architecture that I find beautiful.  It applies to the Rees bunkers at Black.

"It is not a beautiful design. It carries little iconic or monumental significance, but sheer muscular and massive presence," said Lee Sang Jun, a professor of architecture at Yonsei University in Seoul.

I think "sheer muscular and massive presence" has a place in bunker design and believe Tilly would have too.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I do not really have  a problem with the difficulty of the course, since it was certainly built to be tough.  What is slowly being taken away is the strategic nature of some holes--wide fairway left on 5, wide fairway right on 6, wide fairway left on 13 which brought the falloff into play, wide fairway right on 15 that made the 2nd shot longer up to the highly elevated green.  Also, this was my first encounter with how beautiful a natural wildly conditioned course could play.  It pre-dated the current courses being built domestically with such a look.  Unfortunately, it is now becoming more and more artificially bunkered and mounded with lush bluegrass around the greens and fairway bunkers.  

[Dave Bourgeois]

Wow I hate the bunker on the 9th.  Sometimes less is more, and I am afraid we are getting to overload on the Black.

The Red is more fun to play anyway.

[Thomas MacWood]

In reference to Tilly, I honestly don't know what a Tilly bunker looks like. See Newport, San Francisco and the old BB. They are all very very different, so I don't have a problem with the Rees bunkering on BB.

Neither does Rees. From what I've been able to figure out you can divide his architectural career into three distinct period or styles.

The early style when he partnered with George Low & Peter Lees, courses like Somerser Hills, Essex Co, Shackamaxon, Bluff Point and early Quaker Ridge, the courses (and bunkers) are a little more angular, kind of old fashioned, featuring unique mounding.

His prime years, which is a little more naturalistic and free flowing, fairly soft lines, a lot of obtuse angles, courses like Winged Foot, Fenway, Baltimore, Fresh Meadow, Newport and Phila Cricket. Those bunkers are probably considered Tilly's protoypical bunkers.

And then later style which is of a bigger scale and with an usual irregular outline. There aren't many of these courses due to the Depression. Other than the Red and Black perhaps the only other course in this style is or was Ridgewood.

SFGC's bunkering is Billy Bell.

[Mike_Cirba]

As Tom MacWood points out, Tillinghast used multiple styles, as most of the great ones including Donald Ross, William Flynn, etc., all did, and most often they took site characteristics into consideration.

My problem here is that they look like REES JONES BUNKERS, which seemingly populate the land from coast to coast.   It doesn't matter what the individual distinctions of any site are...he just plops these things in there whether they fit or not.

Horrendous.

[John Kavanaugh]

As Tom MacWood points out, Tillinghast used multiple styles, as most of the great ones including Donald Ross, William Flynn, etc., all did, and most often they took site characteristics into consideration.

My problem here is that they look like REES JONES BUNKERS, which seemingly populate the land from coast to coast.   It doesn't matter what the individual distinctions of any site are...he just plops these things in there whether they fit or not.

Horrendous.

Horrendus by whose standards?  The bunkers at Bethpage fit the mission of the course and the culture of their enviornment.  Do you really believe they were just plopped in? 

[John_Cullum]

My impartial observations:

The bunker on 9 doesn't look bad or out of character, but I don't really see where it adds any difficulty to the hole.

The bunkers on 11 look like spectacle bunkers which were fairly common during Tillinghast's time.

The bunker on 13 only looks artifical when you look back at it from the green

[Mike_Cirba]

John,

By my standards.   We are just offering personal opinions here, are we not?

The bunkers he redid at BB originally were not so bad, as he had the original Tillinghast models on the ground to try and emulate.

The one's he's added, like those on 18, the new one on 14, 9, etc., show his usual tasteful style.

[David Stamm]

Is that a picture of Annandale GC?

Carl, these don't look as good as Annandale.

[John Kavanaugh]

Carl, these don't look as good as Annandale.

Maybe if you like eating finger sandwiches at a tea party.

[Dan Herrmann]

Mike Cirba,
Perhaps they're template bunkers from his CAD program?  That would explain the similar look.

[David Stamm]

Carl, these don't look as good as Annandale.

Maybe if you like eating finger sandwiches at a tea party.

So now it's a femine/masculine thing.....

[Chuck Brown]

Aesthetically, what Rees Jones continues to do to great old courses is something that I find offensive, and the Black is one of the better examples.

What I would say in defense of Rees Jones is that given his mandate, which goes something like, "First and foremost, turn this golf course into a perfect U.S. Open-style challenge for tour players," I think he is probably doing a good job.

If we are nostalgic for the older designs, it is in part because those older designs did not have to face the onslaught of launch-monitored players equipped with multilayer urethane balls and 460cc titanium alloy drivers.

[Carl Nichols]

Carl, these don't look as good as Annandale.

Maybe if you like eating finger sandwiches at a tea party.

I was joking w/ the Annandale reference, but from a purely aesthetic standpoint, I prefer the 9th at BP to the Annandale bunkers, especially when repeated on all 18 holes.  I didn't think fingers, I thought spider legs.

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