[Bill_McBride]

There has been a lot of discussion lately about the early architects.  After playing two of his very good / near great heathland courses in England in October 2006 (Delamere Forest and Beau Desert), I'm very interested in the work he did in the United States.

I'm aware of Eastward Ho! on Cape Cod, and I guess Crystal Springs south of San Francisco, but what else of note, and what chronology?

Thanks for any input and first hand experience playing these courses and notes on revision of the architecture over the years.

[David Stamm]

Bill,


   Fowler, as you may or may not know, was the original architect of both the courses at LACC. He was also responsible for the first edition of Rancho Park, known then as The Ambassador Hotel GC. Old Del Monte was heavily renovated by Fowler and is more or less the same today, but I can't be certain what has been changed since then, if at all. And of course he made significant changes to Pebble Beach. If I'm not mistaken, he also laid out the original course at Lake Merced, that was then subsequently redone by MacK.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill,


   Fowler, as you may or may not know, was the original architect of both the courses at LACC. He was also responsible for the first edition of Rancho Park, known then as The Ambassador Hotel GC. Old Del Monte was heavily renovated by Fowler and is more or less the same today, but I can't be certain what has been changed since then, if at all. And of course he made significant changes to Pebble Beach. If I'm not mistaken, he also laid out the original course at Lake Merced, that was then subsequently redone by MacK.

Sounds like he spent considerable time in California, perhaps in the early '20s.   Maybe I can look at Tom McWood's chronology which was certainly thorough.

[TEPaul]

Bill:

In my list of "get to know a lot better", it would be:

1. Fowler
2. Park, Jr
3. Alison
4. Strong
5. Barker
6. Findlay (Alex)
7. Colt
8. Strantz
9. Lester George (Kinlock)
10. Kelly Blake Moran



PS:
There's a great addendum here. A couple of summers ago, one morning, I was sitting at a friend's house overlooking Lake Michigan at Crystal Downs with Mike De Vries, and I asked him if there was any architects anymore who would dare do something as adventurous as a of few holes on Crystal Downs. Mike De Vries, said: 'Sure there is and if you have the time go see my Kingsley Club."

And so I did and I haven't seen him since but I do need to talk to him again after his recommendation.

[Bill_McBride]

Here is Tom MacWood's list, edited to just list the Fowler attributions:

Pebble Beach - 1919 Neville/Grant, 1920 Fowler, 1927 Mackenzie, 1929 Egan/Hunter/et al

Los Angeles (North) - 1921 Fowler, 1927 Thomas/Bell

Lake Merced -  1922 Lock, 1929 Mackenzie (NO FOWLER?)

Sequoyah - 1914 ?, 1920 Fowler (WHO ELSE?)

Presidio - 1895 ?, 1908 ?, 1921 Fowler/Simpson

Del Paso - 1916 Black, 1921 Fowler?

Rancho - 1921 Fowler

Crystal Springs - ? Fowler (MY ADDITION, IS IT JUSTIFIED?)

*****

That's quite a lot of work in 1920-1921.  Any additional input? 

And still wondering about other projects in the U.S. or Canada during his visit(s) from the UK.

[Bill_McBride]

Bill:

In my list of "get to know a lot better", it would be:

1. Fowler
2. Park, Jr
3. Alison
4. Strong
5. Barker
6. Findlay (Alex)
7. Colt
8. Strantz
9. Lester George (Kinlock)
10. Kelly Blake Moran



PS:
There's a great addendum here. A couple of summers ago, one morning, I was sitting at a friend's house overlooking Lake Michigan at Crystal Downs with Mike De Vries, and I asked him if there was any architects anymore who would dare do something as adventurous as a of few holes on Crystal Downs. Mike De Vries, said: 'Sure there is and if you have the time go see my Kingsley Club."

And so I did and I haven't seen him since but I do need to talk to him again after his recommendation.

Tom, the Kingsley Club is great and lots of fun indeed.  Is there a Fowler connection there?  I know both Tom Doak and Mike DeVries have been greatly influenced by Crystal Downs.

[Jon Spaulding]

Let's not forget LACC South, which is a good course....my Louvre/comic book statement not withstanding. I gather that it's the "most" preserved of any of his West Coast designs, even though a fair bit has been altered.

LACC's history contains an ad showing Fowler with an office in San Francisco (in the Pacific Golf & Motor office), and a brief list of what he worked on. Of course I cannot find the damn thing anywhere at the moment. I also recall reading that he would only come to the US for short stints, twice per year.

[Kevin_Reilly]

Bill -- a quick google turned up this short review, which briefly touches on Fowler's work.  I never knew if highway 280 impacted the course layout..for some reason I thought it had, but from the attached it appears that the only impact is sound (which actually isn't as bad, to me, as some other courses adjacent to 280).

http://www.losaltosonline.com/2007/08/29/los-altos-resident-weighs-top-local-golf-courses/?css=print

[Peter Galea]

Crystal Springs Country Club - 1920 
W. Herbert Fowler, Golf Architect and Landscape Gardener
Construction supervised by John H. Clark / Survey by S.M. Millard


*****

[Thomas MacWood]

For being such a big name I would agree there's not a lot of info out there on Fowler, especially in comparsion to his contemporaries. He would make an excellent subject IMO because he was a little controversial, and ruffled some feathers along the way. I know Sean A. is a big fan of his work.

[TEPaul]

Wasn't it Fowler who they said would get somewhat apoplectic at the idea of someone ever changing his architecture?

With Fowler that article Joe Bausch found this year by Charles Evans that Crump and his buddies would sit around in his cabin pouring over Fowler plans and dictates was a wonderful find and interesting info.

[Thomas MacWood]

Wasn't it Fowler who they said would get somewhat apoplectic at the idea of someone ever changing his architecture?

With Fowler that article Joe Bausch found this year by Charles Evans that Crump and his buddies would sit around in his cabin pouring over Fowler plans and dictates was a wonderful find and interesting info.

TE
Yes, you're right. I recently discovered Fowler came to the US in 1913.

[TEPaul]

Good discovery. Does that now mean Herbert Fowler routed and designed Pine Valley? I believe I heard somewhere that Fowler and Barker met each other one time. I don't know if it was in a pub over there or in a bar over here but this could mean that Fowler routed and designed Merion East too. I might pitch Merion that they should consider revising their architectural history to give architectural attribution to "The Two Herberts".

[Thomas MacWood]

Good discovery. Does that now mean that Herbert Fowler routed and designed Pine Valley?

Don't be silly...everyone knows that was Colt.

[Bill_McBride]

Good discovery. Does that now mean Herbert Fowler routed and designed Pine Valley? I believe I heard somewhere that Fowler and Barker met each other one time. I don't know if it was in a pub over there or in a bar over here but this could mean that Fowler routed and designed Merion East too. I might pitch Merion that they should consider revising their architectural history to give architectural attribution to "The Two Herberts".

Well this might be a joke, but it has to make you wonder how much interaction those early architects had with each other.  There seems to have been a lot of collaboration - Colt and Mackenzie being a top example.  Fowler and Simpson seem to have worked together on projects in both the US and the UK.

[Thomas MacWood]

Bill
Good point - in fact Fowler worked with George Thomas at LACC.

[TEPaul]

Bill:

The so-called original "Philly School of Architecture" was basically based on collaboration. Over half of them were "amateurs" (they didn't take pay) anyway, they all knew each other really well and most of them played a lot of golf with one another at one time or another.

Fowler's wife's aunt was Barker's mother's first cousin once removed so that pretty much proves Barker and Fowler were really tight. Real estate developer Joseph Connell's great grandfather and Barker's great grandmother came from the same town in England in the late 18th century so that would explain why Connell hired Barker to look at land in Ardmore in 1910.

[Thomas MacWood]

Here is Tom MacWood's list, edited to just list the Fowler attributions:

Pebble Beach - 1919 Neville/Grant, 1920 Fowler, 1927 Mackenzie, 1929 Egan/Hunter/et al

Los Angeles (North) - 1921 Fowler, 1927 Thomas/Bell

Lake Merced -  1922 Lock, 1929 Mackenzie (NO FOWLER?)

Sequoyah - 1914 ?, 1920 Fowler (WHO ELSE?)

Presidio - 1895 ?, 1908 ?, 1921 Fowler/Simpson

Del Paso - 1916 Black, 1921 Fowler?

Rancho - 1921 Fowler

Crystal Springs - ? Fowler (MY ADDITION, IS IT JUSTIFIED?)

*****

That's quite a lot of work in 1920-1921.  Any additional input? 

And still wondering about other projects in the U.S. or Canada during his visit(s) from the UK.

Bill
Crystal Springs is an original Fowler design. Some other courses I know Fowler was involved with in the US: Burlingame, Menlo CC, Victoria (Riverside), Old Del Monte, Lincoln Park, Dedham Hunt and Allegheny. He did make a trip to the Pacific NW but I've not seen any specific info on what he may have done up there.  He made three trips to the US in the twenties - 1920, 1921 & 1922. Simpson joined him on one of these trips.

[Bill_McBride]

Here is Tom MacWood's list, edited to just list the Fowler attributions:

Pebble Beach - 1919 Neville/Grant, 1920 Fowler, 1927 Mackenzie, 1929 Egan/Hunter/et al

Los Angeles (North) - 1921 Fowler, 1927 Thomas/Bell

Lake Merced -  1922 Lock, 1929 Mackenzie (NO FOWLER?)

Sequoyah - 1914 ?, 1920 Fowler (WHO ELSE?)

Presidio - 1895 ?, 1908 ?, 1921 Fowler/Simpson

Del Paso - 1916 Black, 1921 Fowler?

Rancho - 1921 Fowler

Crystal Springs - ? Fowler (MY ADDITION, IS IT JUSTIFIED?)

*****

That's quite a lot of work in 1920-1921.  Any additional input? 

And still wondering about other projects in the U.S. or Canada during his visit(s) from the UK.

Bill
Crystal Springs is an original Fowler design. Some other courses I know Fowler was involved with in the US: Burlingame, Menlo CC, Victoria (Riverside), Old Del Monte, Lincoln Park, Dedham Hunt and Allegheny. He did make a trip to the Pacific NW but I've not seen any specific info on what he may have done up there.  He made three trips to the US in the twenties - 1920, 1921 & 1922. Simpson joined him on one of these trips.

Original source material for this information?  That's cool about Lincoln Park, one of the shortest, quirkiest routings in the country.  It wraps around a museum, plays off an elevated tee by the parking lot of the museum, hangs out over the cliff outside the Golden Gate a couple of times, and finishes with two of the best long par 3s around at 16 and 17.   As of discussed here, too bad it's in such poor condition.
 
Also, any idea who first gave Fowler the opportunity to work here (i.e. invited him to the U.S. for a commission)?

Thanks.

[Ian Larson]

Has anyone mentioned Eastward Ho!? Im pretty sure thats Fowler, and if so Im sure that could be one his first in the states.

[Thomas MacWood]

Bill
They all come from Fowler advertisements, with the exception of Dedham which came from an article Fowler wrote. I can't believe I forgot to list Eastward Ho!

I believe he originally came over to design LACC or Ambassador Hotel (Rancho), acutally it may have been both. He agressively advertised his visits in American magazines, giving the dates he was going be in NY, LA, SF, etc, and where he would be staying, offering his services to all comers.

I should have made note these were all redesigns: Burlingame, Menlo CC, Victoria (Riverside), Old Del Monte, Lincoln Park, Dedham Hunt and Allegheny.

[Bill_McBride]

Magazine ads were cool, I really liked Dr Mackenzie's where he kept changing partners.  Colt, Hunter, others.   Members of private golf clubs must have had a variety of magazines where they would see these ads.

Tom, if you could post any of these old ads, that would be good to see.   Thanks.

[TEPaul]

Bill:

It's been my feeling that those English architects over here, most particularly Mackenzie and Alison partnered with other architects in various regions not so much because of the other architects but because those other architects had the crews and Alisons and Mackenzie generally didn't. It made perfect sense for them.

Alison proposed partnering with Flynn in the early 1920s. We have a letter from Hugh Wilson saying he didn't think that was a good idea for Flynn as it wasn't necessary for him. The truth may've been Wilson was thinking of partnering with Flynn (this was after the institution of the "architect" rule of the USGA exempting professional architecture from amateur status violation).

The approximately seven page report from Alison to Shinnecock positvely reviewing Flynn's plans for Shinnecock is also sort of an odd one.

[Thomas MacWood]

Bill
Unfortunately its beyond my capabilities. I just checked Shackelford's book Lines of Charm; he has a copy of one of the adverts in that book. Its a little different than the one I was looking at, it lists, in order:

Ambassador Hotel
LACC
Presidio (redesign)
Crystal Springs
Del Monte & Pebble Beach (redesigns)
Burlingame (redesign)
Seqouyah (redesign)
Menlo (redesign)
Del Paso (redesign)
Capitola-by-the-Sea (plans for 18 hole seaside links)
Olympic Club (second 18 seaside links)
Lincoln Park (redesign)

My ad must be later because it has Eastward Ho! listed first. It also has Allegheny and the course in Riverside, but no Capitola or Olympic. I know from an article he wrote he was excited about Olympic. Apparently that job must have fallen through. Capitola is intriguing.

[TEPaul]

Bill:

Just tap into the old magazines found on the websites of LA84 or the USGA "Segl" section on the USGA website. There is a wealth of great old ADS in there for practically everything to do with golf and architecture.

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