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James Boon

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#12 @ Royal Birkdale
« on: July 18, 2008, 03:36:19 AM »
This hole seems to get recognition as one of the best holes at RB. Its also one of only two holes that haven't been changed since the 1998 Open.

I seem to recall that this hole is fairly new (well built around the 1970s perhaps). I think it was the middle generation of the Hawtree's that designed the hole? Does anyone know exactly when it was built and what did it replace? Was there another par 3 in a similar location or one elsewhere, that no longer exists?

Cheers

James
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: #12 @ Royal Birkdale
« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2008, 04:10:18 AM »
James- The 12th was built for the 1965 Open and was designed by Fred Hawtree. It replaced the Old 17th hole which was a par 3 played roughly off the present 18th tee to a downhill hole surounded by about 6 or 7 bunkers. 18 was much straighter in those days and a par 5. The numbering was a bit different, with the current 13, 14, 15, 6 and 17 all being one less.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

James Boon

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Re: #12 @ Royal Birkdale
« Reply #2 on: July 18, 2008, 04:16:58 AM »
Thanks Adrian, I thought I'd read something about the numbers for those holes being different some time ago. I looked on Google Maps aerial photos and after 40 odd years there is no sign of the old hole. I wonder if anyone has any photos or plans of the old par 3 17th?
2023 Highlights: Hollinwell, Brora, Parkstone, Cavendish, Hallamshire, Sandmoor, Moortown, Elie, Crail, St Andrews (Himalayas & Eden), Chantilly, M, Hardelot Les Pins

"It celebrates the unadulterated pleasure of being in a dialogue with nature while knocking a ball round on foot." Richard Pennell

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: #12 @ Royal Birkdale
« Reply #3 on: July 18, 2008, 10:36:10 AM »
You might catch it on google earth, it played in the opposite direction to 17.
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com

Matthew Rose

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Re: #12 @ Royal Birkdale
« Reply #4 on: July 18, 2008, 11:38:00 AM »

They mention that change in an old World Atlas of Golf book I have... what else is interesting is that #13, #15, #17, and #18 were all par-fives at that time (mid-70s). Odder still, #6 is a par-four (apparently this was a par-five at one point), so the course then would have had no par-fives at all until you get to 13, and then four!

Has to be one of the quirkiest things I've ever seen from a championship golf course.
American-Australian. Trackman Course Guy. Fatalistic sports fan. Drummer. Bass player. Father. Cat lover.

Adrian_Stiff

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Re: #12 @ Royal Birkdale
« Reply #5 on: July 18, 2008, 11:53:20 AM »
Matt I think it was Par 73 up until the 71 Open, with the 1st, 13th, 15th, 17th & 18th as fives (remember Mr Lu hooking into the crowd but still got up and down for a birdie). 1976 Open was Par 72 with the 18th as a par 4 with a completely different tee alignment (same as today). I cant recall the 83 changes but I think 1991 saw the 1st and 13th back as 4's.
In 1961 Par was in fact 74, the 1st, 2nd and 6th were 5s but the 13th was a 450 yard 4.
The Old 17th was 186 yards with 14 bunkers!!!!
A combination of whats good for golf and good for turf.
The Players Club, Cumberwell Park, The Kendleshire, Oake Manor, Dainton Park, Forest Hills, Erlestoke, St Cleres.
www.theplayersgolfclub.com