[Tony_Muldoon]

Today I picked up
“Swinley Special” by Nicholas Courtney published by Philmore.   Just a brief look indicates that is it will prove to be one of the best club histories regarding the architecture of the course. 
A quick scan indicates:-
That Colt was a driving force behind creating the course i.e. before the idea of a club. 
That Moriaty was right . Well at least as far as measuring courses goes.
It gives alot of detail about construction and the state of things in the very early days.

Looking forward to reading it thoroughly.





In November, Icon books will publish "Creating Classics: The Golf Courses of Harry Colt"

Mostly written by Peter Pugh (the secretary of  Stoke Poges?) with contributions from Bruce Critchley.

There’s only one thing holding up publication. Does anyone know the middle name of Colt's mother? Georgiana (Ellane/Ellen?) Colt (née Brace?).

[Thomas MacWood]

I would go with E.

[Sean_A]

Tony

Thanks for reminding me about Swinley Special.  I recall reading about its then soon to be publication, but forgot about it.  Now in my possession, the first I noticed was a photo of the 4th on page 32.  Two things, the bunker isn't flashed and it is referred to as a Arrison bunker in the caption!  I must read on.

Ciao

[Ronald Montesano]

Ebeneezer is probably not an option.  Good luck finding out.  I agree with 'E.'

[Adam_Messix]

Tony--

I had heard from Philip Truett that a Swinley history was in the works.  Will it and the other Colt book be available on amazon or is it going to take a more "local" source?

[JNagle]

Kelly -

I did a google search with the book title, publisher and author.  I was able to get a web-site
for the publisher.  The book is still not available on-line.

[Tony_Muldoon]

Tony,

I didn't have much luck finding the book Swinley Special through various google searches.  any ideas?  The author came up but he is an actor from London, same guy?  Thanks for any help.

Nicholas Courtney is described on the blurb as an ex General Manager of the Island of Mustique and now an author, broadcaster and lecturer.  I can only imagine that he got the job because he was discrete about goings on in Mustique.  Anyone know if there are skeltons in the cupboard at Swinely?   Overall he does a pretty good job with his material and its not the laboured prose of so many club histories.

I imagine the book has only just come out.  We were killing half an hour in the Watersons on Piccadilly last sunday and it caught my eye. They are a big chain and have their own internet service but I checked and it's not up there yet.


Patience.

[Sean_A]

I tried to buy the book from the publisher site, but there was some sort of problem.  Instead, I used Amazon and completed yet another transaction with excellent service. 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Swinley-Forest-Golf-Nicholas-Courtney/dp/1860774814/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1215729929&sr=1-6

Ciao

[John Mayhugh]

Any comments on the Swinley book?  Was thinking about buying a copy.

[Tony_Muldoon]

John rather than let this thread die this time around, I’m now going to have a second bite at this cherry.


ON the one hand.

Buy it and soak it all in. Colt seemingly was given unlimited power to create a masterpiece right at the start of his independent career. Perhaps that’s why he referred to it as his least bad course.  It's a good read and an insight into a long ago time.


ON the other hand.


Historically it's not the absolute last word on Swinley.  There’s something not quite right about the account of how he came to get involved with it and I think the story teller needed his reins pulled in at a few points.  Was he really Secretary of Swinley and Sunnigdale at t he same time?

Overall it's a good buy in a marketplace where most club histories are a waste of money.

[Andrew Mitchell]

Overall it's a good buy in a marketplace where most club histories are a waste of money.

Tony

I hope you are excluding the club histories written by the esteemed Mark Rowlinson from that generalisation

[Tom MacWood]

The Swinley history is very good, a very interesting story. I think the author under plays the involvement of Lord Derby, and like Tony I question if Colt was ever secretary of Swinley, but nonetheless there is a lot of good info in the book. 

[Pete_Pittock]

Tony,
Ellen,
Sept, 1852, St. Giles, London,MIddlesex

Link: http://search.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/sse.dll?gl=ROOT_CATEGORY&rank=1&new=1&so=3&MSAV=0&msT=1&gss=ms_f-2&gsfn=georgiana+e&gsln=brace

She is the 10th entry on scroll down.

Cheerio

[Paul_Turner]

There's a new one coming out by the same authors who did "Creating Classics"

Masters of Design: The Golf Courses of Colt, Mackenzie, Alison and Morrison

[Chuck Brown]

For all you Michigan guys -- I was thumbing through my copy of Geoff Shackelford's "Lines of Charm" last night, and noticed in the inseide leaf of the book, that a half-dozen old business cards of classic-era golf course architects were listed.  Among them C.H. Alison, associated with Mr. H.S. Colt.  With an office in the Penobscot building in downtown Detroit.  That was really stunning to me.

[John Mayhugh]

Thanks for the comments on the book.

The Penobscot building - that's fascinating.  I never noticed that address before.

[Sean_A]

I too enjoyed the book.  Unlike the others, I can't see why Colt couldn't have been the sec of Sunny and Swinley.  The book goes into decent detail about his duties at Swinley and recounts the contract sitauation with Sunny - obviously overlapping with Swinley.  Do folks think these are lies?  Though, the book also states that Colt more or less was in an advisory position at Swinley after a few years - around the same time he resigned from Sunny and his design responsibilities took off.  I do find it strange that Colt was engaged in an advisory roll at Sunny though.  The whole business with Simpson coming in is a bit odd I think.


Ciao

[Tony_Muldoon]

Sean its more the lack of evidence that he was what we understand by the name Secretary,

1 Colt & Co and the Sunningdale history both filet the relatively extensive Sunningdale minutes and that is where the detailed information comes from re Colt's withdrawal. Hawtree repeatedly makes the point of how correct Colt was in his dealings with the club. Neither book makes mention of the fact that he was now also the Secretary of a rival club, whose appeal was to the most titled and privileged Sunny members, just 5 miles down the road. Inconcievable that he would go behind their backs on this one?

2 Sutton’s minutes record Colt telling them that he would not be Secretary at the new club.

3 The Swinley book calls him secretary but (from my increasingly useless memory) gives no dates, terms of employment, salary etc all of which are stringently recorded in the Sunningdale book.  IN fact it's a little light on scholarly attribution of information sources.

Hence I don't think the author quite nailed exactly what Colts role was there either in creating the impetus for the club or running it once it was open.  It does show that he was more involved in both these than was previously known (at least to me), but I still think there's questions to be asked.  

They do things differently  at Swinley and if it meant he had the same title in both clubs but two different roles that were not in conflict then the author did a poor job of spelling it out.

I’m pleased they produced it though.

[Tom MacWood]

Sean
Colt was trying to breakaway from the his secretarial responsibilities at Sunningdale in order to devote more time to golf architecture (he first resigned in 1911 right before his first trip to America), why would he want to take on another secretarial job? The story makes no sense.

Simpson redesigning Sunningdale-New is strange, although it was pretty late (1933-34) in Colt's career and he was slowing down. It may have come down to a choice between Morrison and Simpson, and they chose Simpson. They called in Morrison in 1937 to undo Simpson's work.

[Paul_Turner]

Colt definitely consulted with both clubs through the 1920s in a design capacity.

The whole Simpson thing is intriguing.  It must have pissed off Colt to no end and I think he fell out with the club over it. The final redo of Sunn New does get a mention in the "Colt and Co" letters:

Morrison to Colt in 1939:

"I have had several letters from people saying what a tremendous improvement our alterations to Simpson's holes at Sunningdale are"

So I think both Morrison and Colt did that work.  Colt was slowing down but he still was designing: eg Edgbaston 1936

[John Mayhugh]

I thought all club histories were 100% accurate?   

[Tom MacWood]

Paul
I don't doubt Colt was involved in some capacity in the re-redesign of Sunningdale-New, but the fact that the letters are going to Morrison I think shows he was the man in charge. If I'm not mistaken Sunningdale was among a handful of his courses listed in Morrison's obit.

The hiring of Simpson must have been like a knife in the heart.

[Sean_A]

Sean its more the lack of evidence that he was what we understand by the name Secretary,

1 Colt & Co and the Sunningdale history both filet the relatively extensive Sunningdale minutes and that is where the detailed information comes from re Colt's withdrawal. Hawtree repeatedly makes the point of how correct Colt was in his dealings with the club. Neither book makes mention of the fact that he was now also the Secretary of a rival club, whose appeal was to the most titled and privileged Sunny members, just 5 miles down the road. Inconcievable that he would go behind their backs on this one?

2 Sutton’s minutes record Colt telling them that he would not be Secretary at the new club.

3 The Swinley book calls him secretary but (from my increasingly useless memory) gives no dates, terms of employment, salary etc all of which are stringently recorded in the Sunningdale book.  IN fact it's a little light on scholarly attribution of information sources.

Hence I don't think the author quite nailed exactly what Colts role was there either in creating the impetus for the club or running it once it was open.  It does show that he was more involved in both these than was previously known (at least to me), but I still think there's questions to be asked.  

They do things differently  at Swinley and if it meant he had the same title in both clubs but two different roles that were not in conflict then the author did a poor job of spelling it out.

I’m pleased they produced it though.

Tony & Tommy Mac

I have no doubt that the title of secretary was just that, a title.  But Colt was certainly in the employ of two clubs at once and it makes sense as a cushion to a new career of design.  Sunny raised his salary substantially and it seems they reduced his responsibilities.  I think Swinley required a bit more than architectural help when they employed Colt.  I seem to recall taking care of caddies etc.  No, this once again seems like folks over-thinking the situation.  Remember, minutes reqcord generally what those that matter want recorded.  There will be a LOT left out.  I also get the impression that after a spell, unlike at Sunny, Colt didn't have much to do with Swinley.  Perhaps they wanted a commitment Colt couldn't give.

Ciao 

[Paul_Turner]

Paul
I don't doubt Colt was involved in some capacity in the re-redesign of Sunningdale-New, but the fact that the letters are going to Morrison I think shows he was the man in charge. If I'm not mistaken Sunningdale was among a handful of his courses listed in Morrison's obit.

The hiring of Simpson must have been like a knife in the heart.

Tom

When was Morrison the Captain of Sunningdale?  That might have been around the time of the re-redesign and/or the 1939 letter.  He was living in Sunningdale village too for a while.

I have an old history pamphlet from the 1960's I think it states that both were involved but doesn't go into detail.

I was pretty impressed by Colt's detailed drawings of Edgbaston...so I think there was still life in the old dog even in the mid 1930s.

[Tom Dunne]

Just the other day I turned up a copy of a book called "The 6 Handicap Golfer's Companion" in an antiquarian bookshop in Cardiff. It had chapters by Colt and Harold Hilton. 120 pounds! I didn't buy it, needless to say...

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