[Glenn Spencer]

Forget Tiger/Rocco.

That Federer/Nadal match was as exciting as the damn '86 Masters.

I hope some of you got to see it.  I watched the whole damn thing and it was absolutely thrilling.

JWinik:  hmm....3 empty tennis courts with grass in the cracks and an uninspiring golf course....let's guess:

Itasca?

I agree. It was right there with Miami vs. Ohio State 2OT game. So much on the line for both players and history. It may have been the best sporting event that I have seen.

[JSlonis]

Like Shivas, I watched the entire match as well.  It was one of the finest sporting events I've ever watched.  The level of play of both gentlemen was other-worldly.  Thankfully I didn't have much to do yesterday because it did eat up a large chunk of the day...although it wasn't as long as the Phillies/Mets game that started at 1:30 pm and finally ended just before 9 pm.

[Tony Ristola]

You need agility and speed to play cage-ball well.
You need an opponent of your caliber to enjoy it.
You need none of these for golf.

[Joe Bausch]

Like Shivas, I watched the entire match as well.  It was one of the finest sporting events I've ever watched.  The level of play of both gentlemen was other-worldly.  Thankfully I didn't have much to do yesterday because it did eat up a large chunk of the day...although it wasn't as long as the Phillies/Mets game that started at 1:30 pm and finally ended just before 9 pm.

I watched the entire thing, which was interrupted twice by rain delays, and it was as good of competition I've seen in years.  Just as good, if not better, than Borg/McEnroe in 1980 and that was at the height of my competitive tennis playing days.

[John Kavanaugh]

Between mass and/or golf who has time to watch a five set match on a Sunday morning?  Who are you people?

[Tim_Cronin]

As Shivas said, this was tennis' equivalent of the 1986 Masters. At the rain delay in the third set, I thought the match had the potential to get near the Borg-McEnroe classics (to say nothing of the forgotten Borg-Connors semifinal in 1981, when Borg was down two sets and won), or some of the Evert-Navratilova showdowns. It kept getting better and better and better, and the rain and approaching darkness just added to the mix. Like everyone at Centre Court, I didn't want it to end and didn't care who took the trophy. It was the rare sports event with two winners, and I'm not even sure this year's Open at Torrey Pines had that.
Between the British GP at 7 a.m., the gent's final and the Indy car race at Watkins Glen (also in HD!), I had a bunch of stuff to do Sunday and never got anything done until 5 p.m.

[Tim Bert]

I missed the entire 1st, 2nd, and 5th sets.  It looked like a Federer domination to me!!

Watching Federer come back from 5-2 and then facing 2 championship points in the 4th set tiebreaker was incredible.

[John Kavanaugh]

I do hope the Nadal victory brings the capant into the golf mainstream.  My son in his 11th year coined the term capant...half capri, half pant - for men.

[JWinick]

I think a tennis revival would be good for golf, particularly private clubs that have tennis facilities.  Do most country clubs have tennis courts?   Most of the clubs I've played had tennis courts.  I'd love to see my club put an indoor court in to drive more revenue in the winter.   

The final was awesome.  I'm annoyed I forgot to TIVO it.   Are Americans that provincial that we don't care if the participants are European?  Personally, I could care less if Federer and Nadal were from Atlanta and St. Louis.  Would golf be less popular if Tiger Woods were Canadian?  Or, Scottish?   I suppose it would make a difference, but I can't solely buy the argument that tennis is unpopular because there aren't enough good Americans.   

[Sean_A]

The finals this year was outstanding.  I am not a tennis fan, but I watch odds n' sods of the 1st week at Wimbledon and a serious amount of the 2nd week every year since living in the UK (its hard to avoid!).  The tournament never fails to entertain and I would go so far as to say its the single greatest tournament on the planet - it is so well run that even the Germans are impressed.  I have been saying for years that golf needs a Wimbledon and badly.  All that said, I do think its a shame that a roof will be up next year.  I like all the rain delays and wind.  Its part n' parcel of tennis and should certainly be factors at championship level. 

Ciao

[James Bennett]

And now, finally, Wimbledon is being broadcast in high-def here in the USA.  Here are some frame grabs from today's final match:

Joe

I presume that is actually Bjorn Borg, but the picture seems to bear a resemblance to a (slightly older) famous Philadelphian resident and GAP identity.  What do you think?  Perhaps the Philadelphian went over on a boat to check out some of the heathland courses nearby  .  We know he hasn't made it to The Old Course yet.

James B

[Shane Gurnett]

Tennis is boring. It's like watching golf played on the same hole over and over again (a bit like a playoff where they play the 18th over and over until they get a result).

But if they changed the shape of the court whenever the players changed ends it might be worth watching 

[Tim Bert]

At least they don't use cheater lines in tennis.   

You obviously weren't paying close enough attention to the instant replay line disputes that Federer called every 3 minutes.  A cheater line if I've ever seen one.

How many years ago did they introduce this annoying feature, and what is the penalty for requesting review on a call that proves to be correct?  There didn't seem to be any downside to checking from what I could tell.  This seems like a nice strategy if you get winded and need a quick break in a big tennis match.

I would propose that asking for a review when the call was correct should result in the player having to stand during the entire switch sides of the court break.

[JWinick]

I respectfully degree, Tim.   It's not like the NFL where it usually takes 3 minutes to conduct the replay.   This system, which is probably used maybe 5-10 times tops a match, allows for a quick and accurate check of the official's call.   However, I really do miss the excitement of a player getting upset over a controversial call.  "You can't be serious!" or "Words cannot describe how low you are" from John McEnroe are outstanding sports memories for me. 

[Tim Bert]

I respectfully degree, Tim.   It's not like the NFL where it usually takes 3 minutes to conduct the replay.   This system, which is probably used maybe 5-10 times tops a match, allows for a quick and accurate check of the official's call.   However, I really do miss the excitement of a player getting upset over a controversial call.  "You can't be serious!" or "Words cannot describe how low you are" from John McEnroe are outstanding sports memories for me. 

No problem.  People respectfully disagree with Shivas's take on the golf cheater line as well.  That's what makes them controversial.

I like the human element.  I don't like the blatant mis-call to ruin a Championship, but that's why tennis always had the umpire there to overall and provide a check and balance system.  I'm not sure what the umpires role is any more other than to quiet down the crowd and to announce that challenges are taking place after every point. 

PS - Federer alone exceeded at least that minimum threshold of 5 in the 3rd and 4th sets.

[Bill_McBride]

I do hope the Nadal victory brings the capant into the golf mainstream.  My son in his 11th year coined the term capant...half capri, half pant - for men.

An Italian friend told us those are "Pinocchio pants."

[John Kavanaugh]

I do hope the Nadal victory brings the capant into the golf mainstream.  My son in his 11th year coined the term capant...half capri, half pant - for men.

An Italian friend told us those are "Pinocchio pants."

I'm playing in Terre Haute with, like what else would you play in Terre Haute with, a group of my idiot red neck friends and one of them says.."Damn, look at the swing on that hot Asian chick in those capri's.." We all enjoyed the view until the silky haired gentleman turned our way and wondered what the hell we were looking at.  He looked so sweet it was one of those "it moved" moments.

[Mike Boehm]

At least they don't use cheater lines in tennis.   

You obviously weren't paying close enough attention to the instant replay line disputes that Federer called every 3 minutes.  A cheater line if I've ever seen one.

How many years ago did they introduce this annoying feature, and what is the penalty for requesting review on a call that proves to be correct?  There didn't seem to be any downside to checking from what I could tell.  This seems like a nice strategy if you get winded and need a quick break in a big tennis match.

I would propose that asking for a review when the call was correct should result in the player having to stand during the entire switch sides of the court break.

Tim -

Players are given an allotment of 3 incorrect challenges per set (I believe an additional incorrect challenge is given in a tiebreaker).  Any correct challenges (i.e. call is overturned) do not count against that allotment,  which I think makes sense - why should the player be penalized for being correct.  So, theoretically, you could have a challenge on every call - if the line judge was always wrong and the player always right - but, you'd probably have an unemployed line judge after the match.

Mike

[Tim Bert]

The real question is if it is so efficient and accurate, why not use it as an automated system to foolproof line calls?

[Mike Boehm]

Tim -

I think the process is efficient in comparison to the replay systems utilized in other sports (e.g. college and professional football).  Seems like it would become somewhat inefficent if used on every point - it does seem take a few additional seconds to generate the computer imagine.

Also, the system would need to be set to provide immediate feedback as to in/out - otherwise players would not know when a point was over.  Currently, a line judge makes the call that determines the end of a point - any delay in generating the computerized in/out call would seem to be a problem.  On average at Wimbeledon, there are 6.5 challenges per match on the men's side, 3.8 per match on the women's side.  In the aggregate, this does not slow up a match significantly.

Finally, I believe there is a significant cost factor to implement this system universally.  Only certain courts were equipped with Hawk-Eye technology.  I don't think the line judges are going anywhere anytime soon due to the cost, and the other factors above, not to mention tradition.  However, having the technology does help prevent a controversial or incorrect call from altering a match.

Mike

[mike_beene]

Tennis remains very popular at my club.I finally quit because of too many hobbies and at 40 I realized I was the same age as the players parents.My fantasy world likes to think that at 48 I am no older than Julius Boros winning a PGA or Kenny Perry winning an Open.Of course he would have to enter...To tie tennis to golf,a certain Williams sister has been known to hit at the club when she is in town to see her long hitting love interest.

[Jeff Fortson]

For those of you that don't know me I was a club pro for @ 7 years and a playing professional for 3 years in golf.  I still carry a +2 handicap.  I am also a strong 4.0 tennis player (i would say a 4.0 would be like a 6 handicap in tennis).  I am a member at the Indian Wells Tennis Garden where the Pacific Life tennis tournament is held (it's like the TPC to golf; a 5th major).


Upsides for Golf -

1.  Longevity.  You can play at a fairly high level for a long time.  It's hard to play a high level of singles tennis past 50.  Most older tennis players end up only playing doubles. 

2.  Handicaps.  This was mentioned in other posts.  Golf does give players of varying skills the ability to play a match against each other.  In tennis, a 3.5 player would get bageled (6-0, 6-0) by a 4.5 and would struggle mightily to win a game off a 4.0.  There is no way to handicap a match that is fair between varying levels.

3.  Golf has more variety.  Every hole is different.  There are no set dimensions, only guidelines.  There is always a course out there to play that you've never seen.

4.  Golf is more social.  It's hard to get in as much conversation in a a dozen or so 60 second changeovers as there is in 4 hours of golf.

5.  Golf can be played alone.  You're never denied an opportunity to play due to a lack of company.


Upsides for Tennis -

1.  Exercise.  Tennis is FAR superior in this category to golf.  Walking 5 or 6 miles is nothing like running the same amount or more.

2.  Tennis takes less time.  You can play a 3 set match in 2 hours. 

3.  You can play at night.  This gives tennis more flexibility in it's availability to the players.  (I know there are lit golf courses but they are few and far between.

4.  Tennis is cheaper.  Memberships are fractions of golf memberships.  You can play for free at most parks.  Equipment is cheaper too.  (Unless you string your racquet with gut like me)

5.  Tennis is easier to learn... initially.  To become a "bogey tennis player" (my term to equate it with golf) takes less time and effort.


In all, I love both.  In defense of tennis from previous posts I want to touch on just a few more issues...

1.  I know many professional golfers that play tennis.  Tiger is actually an avid tennis player when he has the time. 

2.  Tennis does have variety.  The dimensions of the court may stay the same but there are different types of surfaces.  Tennis plays VERY differently on grass, clay, carpet and hard courts.  It's really fun to play on grass and clay.  Most people that play tennis in the U.S. have never been exposed to grass or clay.  I am fortunate enough to have played on them and the game changes significantly.

3.  Tennis has just as rich of a history and tradition as golf.  It has the players and facilities that match up with golf's hallowed grounds and players.

4.  Tennis takes as much skill as golf to get REALLY good.  It's easier to pick up tennis than golf in the beginning but to have an arsenal of shots takes as much work and time as golf does to reach that same high-level game.


Jeff F.

[Jim Nugent]

Jeff, can you explain the numbering system for tennis players?  How high do the numbers go, what numbers are the top pro players, etc.? 

[JWinick]

Jeff:

Good points.   I'm sure some golf pros also play tennis, but its a testament to golf that so many professional athletes play golf and list it as their favorite sport.  Professional athletes are attracted to the competition and the difficulty of the game, and their support denigrates the wimp factor of golf.   Ivan Lendl, for one, is a certified golf nut.  I don't know of any current or former professional golfer who is a tennis nut.

Tennis does have more variety.  The surfaces are different as well as the elements.  Or, you can play indoors.   I have played on grass courts before and it is a completely different game than clay courts.

[Sean_A]

Bugger tennis.  What about this Real (as in Real Madrid) Tennis business?  I was down in Oxford this past Saturday and happened upon http://www.outc.org.uk/

The game sounds fascinating.  Anyone ever play it?

Ciao

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