[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

In its current state it does not achieve said greatness because of a very major problem which tends to jump right out in the very first picture.  Another problem that the pictures will not show very well is the lush bluegrass rough which tends to keep balls from rolling down into the consistenly very deep bunkers.  This course may have the deepest bunkers in metro-NY.  The right greenside bunker on hole 17 may make the greensides at Yale #8 seem only moderately deep!



This is the 3rd which is his version of the Eden.  There is a rather severe spine that runs from near the back to near the front in the right third of the green.

This is the deep bunker--so deep that I could not get the sand in the picture.




This is a great par 5 that has a cool kicker on the front left of the green--miss the kicker and you have a very fun bunker shot!



This hole has nothing in common with the famous one at Prestwick.  Still a great hole with a cool and severe back to front and right to left sloping green.


This hole was once a lot longer according to Paul Runyon--I had to drive him by the course on the way to a hotel in Greenwich back in 1989.  We stood in the parking lot for a few minutes while he reminised how the course used to give him fits because the bunkers were so deep.  He pointed to this hole and said it was the longest Redan that they used to play back in the day.  I think the tee used to be back forty yards which would make things kick accross the green better.  I currently does not play anything like a Redan.



This is the 9th which is aptly named Moat




This is Bank's version of the punchbowl

And the famous Biarritz




This is Double Plateau

This is another famous name that I cannot see how it bears any resemblence to the original.  However, this is one hell of a great par 4, but can anyone see any semblance to the Road Hole?






I think that this is an awesomwe version of short with some incredible pins--especially this one


This is Sahara

The front right bunker is literally 25 feet deep! Unfortunately, the grass is so lush that the player in my group who should have been in the bunker was only half way down coming off a long iron that hit near the top of the slope.

[Chris_Blakely]

Robert,

Great pictures.  Have you played Forsgate?  If so, how does Tamarack compare.  I have always heard that Whippoorwill was Banks' best; however, I have not played Tamarack or Whippoorwill.

Chris

[Tim Gavrich]

I have heard almost nothing about Tamarack.  It looks kind of like it's been changed in places from the original design.  Also, are there plans to take out trees?

[Mike Sweeney]

Brian Silva did the restoration of "The Rack". I hope to finally play it later this summer or fall. There are a few fans of the course here. RMD thanks for the pics.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

How long ago did Silva do his restoration? Did he do it without a chainsaw?

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I was unaware of an architect involved in the work.  Hopefully, there is a masterplan that deals with the tree issue.  One can very easily see that almost every tree was planted sometime between 1965 and 1975 judging by the consistent sizes of the pine trees.  It is too bad that bluegrass was used on the bunker banks--balls will not roll down into the bunkers with the current maintenance practices.  With only a few trees remaning this might be his best work.  Incidentally, Whipporwill is not an original Banks layout.  Donald Ross is responsible with Banks redoing a couple of greens and all of the bunkers.  There are some cool Ross greens with the Banks bunker style that makes an interesting combination.

[Steve_ Shaffer]

What's really interesting is this piece on the club's website:

www.tamarackcountryclub.com/club/scripts/library/view_document.asp?GRP=9265&NS=PCT&APP=80&DN=TREES

[corey miller]

What is also interesting is the club is named after the trees that were indiginous to the area.  The course would look a lot better if one could once again see those trees rather than the planted ones Robert speaks of.

Isn't this the most vital and cost effective element of any restoration plan?

[Britt Rife]

It was interesting to me that you called out Banks's Road Hole as something of a mystery.  I have seen it written that he does seem to take liberties with this particular template. 

I frequently play his Annapolis Roads course here in Maryland and what I assume to be the Road Hole there is a short par five.  The connection to the Road Hole is not immediately apparent.  At Annap. Rds., the tee shot does not demand that one carry a particular hazard in order to set up the second shot to the green, in the way that the original calls for the OB/rail shed to be carried.  Rather, the play off of the tee is to the left side of a wide fairway--too far left places you in a bunker of considerable depth.  If the drive is long enough to reach the crest of the hill, the ball is launched forward, leaving a mid iron or even short iron second shot into this par 5.   The left side is preferred, as the green is guarded front right with the same sort of enormously deep bunker your photograph shows early in your essay.  Nothing of the green is visible from its depths (it's tough even to see the sky from there).  If the shot is missed long or hit thin, the ball will run off the back down a hill of substantial grade and often onto a dirt path, simulating the Road.  Banks also put another impossibly deep bunker to the left of the green, but I suppose that is simply to justify calling this one a three-shotter.

Of course, I may be wrong in identifying this hole as being from the Road Hole template, but it does contain some significant Road elements: (a) a preferred driving line guarded by a severe penalty; (b) death in front of the green facing the player from the "wrong" side of the fairway; (c) death behind the green punishing the mis-hit longer iron.  And while this is a par 5 rather than a par 4, it contains the same risk-reward elements of the par 4 original--you can safely play it by laying up so as to approach the green along a danger-free axis or you can hope that a longer shot will hold.  The additional element which I like a lot (and which may not have been available to the hickory players of Banks's time) is the power slot which allows a perfectly positioned drive both to receive a yardage boost and to attack the green along a friendly axis.

[Matt_Ward]

Robert:

The trees have to be cut back -- as in waaaaaaaaaaaaay back.

If you play Forsgate / Banks you will see what management has done there to bring back to life the qualities that Banks originally envisioned. When I see such trees at Tamarack engulfing the immediate playing areas you have to wonder if people really understand how they obscure the magic that was Banks gift to design.

Those who have not played Forsgate / Banks in the last year or so really have little idea on what I am talking about.

Tamarack has clearly much potential -- Forsgate / Banks is already there.

[Jeff Loh]

Anyone know Brian Silva? I'm afraid he is the only one to answer the tree question. He did some good work there 3 years ago (reclaiming some long lost parts of greens) but he certainly didn't go far enough with the trees. Reluctance (ignorance) on the members part? Hard to tell. Still a great place to knock it around. The members should rent a bus and take a road trip to Sleepy Hollow and see what selective tree removal can do. Perhaps the 25 million dollar (not a typo) clubhouse re-do left them a little strapped for cash.

[Bill Brightly]

Great pictures! looks like Silva did a great job. But the trees!!! Anyone know any members to ask if they have plans to lose all the pines?

[Chris_Blakely]

I was unaware of an architect involved in the work.  Hopefully, there is a masterplan that deals with the tree issue.  One can very easily see that almost every tree was planted sometime between 1965 and 1975 judging by the consistent sizes of the pine trees.  It is too bad that bluegrass was used on the bunker banks--balls will not roll down into the bunkers with the current maintenance practices.  With only a few trees remaning this might be his best work.  Incidentally, Whipporwill is not an original Banks layout.  Donald Ross is responsible with Banks redoing a couple of greens and all of the bunkers.  There are some cool Ross greens with the Banks bunker style that makes an interesting combination.

I am 100% aware that Ross did the orginal course.  From the people I have talked to theat have played there and the pictures I have seen, Whipoorwill is a complete Banks redo of a Ross course.

[Jeff Loh]

Bill
i know a member. the work was "done" three years ago. they don't get it. they like the clubhouse though.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

as a newbie here (but lurker for many years), i'm curious why everyone is so against trees now?  was it the oakmont epiphany or have some of you always been anti-tree?

[Bill Brightly]

Jay,

No one is against trees. Trees that line the outside of the property and create separation from the neighbors are fantastic. Speciman hardwoods are also beautiful, and I like a well-placed strategic tree here and there.

But it is the hideous white pines and spruces that SO MANY courses planted in the 60's and 70's to create "separation" of holes. Some call it the Augusta effect. Those trees are so ugly and take away greatly from the natural beauty of the shapes of the golf course: the mounds, the white sand, the greens. (Try to look at those pictures again imagining the white pines were gone....can you see it?)

This is especially true on a Banks course, where the mounding is so stunning. This includes beautiful side views and back views.

I was a tree hugger way back, but gradually learned to "see past" the pines and realize how much better these inland courses look without the pines. These cheap, fast, growing pines were planted back in the Save the Earth days in the 60's by well intentioned people...We have taken out 600 at my course, and the course looks SO much better. I have never played Tamarack, loved he photos, but almost got in my car with a chain saw as I scrolled down these pictures!

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Of all the Raynor/Banks/MacDonald courses that I've played, this has the boldest undulations.  It might not be the masterpiece found at NGLA or Yale, but this has some majesty that is obscured by the trees.  My whole round was spent imagining the course with only a handfull of trees.

[Jay Kirkpatrick]

Bill,

I certainly understand the anti-spruce movement.  They certainly aren't the prettiest trees in the world, and I agree that they can take away from the aesthetics of a course.  However, it seems like people have all of a sudden jumped on the anti-tree bandwagon after the successful Oakmont binge.  I'm just curious if these anti-tree guys did a complete 180 lately... or if they were anti-tree all along.

Personally, I love oak lined fairways and big trees on a golf course.  In many respects, I think the size of some of these trees offset the technology of the new ball/golf clubs.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

I am not anti-tree, but am not enthused by trees taking away from the quality of the course.  This is a course that was almost barren of trees from its inception to sometime in the late 1960's.  On the other hand, I believe that a course like Fairview, which is located on the same street, should be well treed.  (They might have gone too far in the late 70's--you can see what RTJ Sr. left originally--which would be in the 3-5,000 range and a few hundred additonal trees that tend to pinch a few holes.)  My post on Old Westbury does not criticize the abundance of trees--it is a very good course that successfully held a coupld of Met Opens.

[Bill Brightly]

Jay,

My appreciation for tree removal started long before Oakmont took down their trees.
I was a member of our Grounds Committee when our new superintendent began taking down trees around greens and tees to improve the turfgrass. It is hard to grow grass in shade!

This was re-inforced by listening to our local USGA agronomist, who recommends tree removal for the same reason. He explained how beautiful the remaining trees appear when you clear out the spruces. If pines and spruces are planted too close to the hardwoods, which is very often the case, none of the trees develop a nice uniform shape.

Only in the last three years, as I became fascinated by golf course architecture did I realize how much better many courses would be with almost all the trees gone. Even if you go as far as taking down an entire tree line, which removes a major hazard, the rough can grow, compensating from a difficulty standpoint.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

bump

[Mike Sweeney]

Due to the diversity of terrain, I would give the slight edge to Whippoorwill over Forsgate and Tamarack. That is saying something because The Rack was one of my favorite rounds this past year. It was a blast to play.

[Robert Mercer Deruntz]

Tamarack and Whipporwill have some of the most dramatic bunkering found in the world.  My take on the courses is that Tamarck has generally deeper and geometric shaped bunkers while Whipporwill has greater elevation changes and better contoured greens.  I always envision Tamarack without the trees and the features become very sharp and powerful.

[Matt_Ward]

Gents:

I have a huge amt of respect for the works of Banks but his work at Forsgate / Banks, Essex County (minus the few Tillie holes that are still present), and his two nines at Montclair GC are equal to the task in being cited as first rate efforts.

Many of the folks have not played the recent work completed by Stephen Kay at the Banks Course at Forsgate. The quartet of par-3's there is among the very, very best in all of NJ -- and I would dare sy that includes the quartet at PV. You also have the superlative back-to-back par-5 holes on the front and the exciting finish which includes the restored biaritz par-3 17th.

In regards to terrain Forsgate is more than equal if not ahead of any other Banks Courses I have played.

Kudos to George Bahto and Gil Hanse for the magic they have brought back to life with their work at Essex County CC.

When people talk about bunkering -- the Banks Course at Forsgate is more than a match for what you see at Tamarack and Whipporwill.

Frankly, it amazes me how Banks is generally under-appreciated when you see the ink that Raynor often gets.

[Mike Sweeney]

When people talk about bunkering -- the Banks Course at Forsgate is more than a match for what you see at Tamarack and Whipporwill.

Matt,

Have you seen Tamarack since the Silva work? While you are off seeing courses in Colorado, some of us are doing the heaving back East.    I never saw the before at Tamarack, but what is there now is quite good. Yes, it could lose some trees, but the trees that are there really only come into play for really bad shots. However, it would look better (see Forsgate) with less trees.

I guess my real question is where is there any Banks bunkering left on any of these three courses?

Not a complaint, it is just a reality that different renovation/restoration architects have different styles. Whippoorwill may have the worst Banks bunkering (last I saw), but it may still be my favorite. All three are very close.

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