[David_Elvins]

I was interested to see that in Pat Mucci's threads about the favorite 18 Par 3s that a lot of people listed the 17th at Merion  but bery few, if any, listed the 3rd hole. 

Personally I thought the 3rd was every bit as good as the 17th but now I am starting to wonder if I have misjudged it.    I loved the diagonal element created by the intimidating front right bunker, and also love that there was a bit of illusion created in that there was more to the hole than this diaglonal strategy.  I thought the hole used the natural landform brilliantly and the internall contouring of the green which provided both strategy and variable pin positions was some of the best I have seen.

Am I reading too much into it?  Does the hole have a weakness that I do not know about?  Did I miss something?

[Dan Herrmann]

David, It's all subjective.  I think 9 and 13 are the better pair of one-shotters.  But, hell - they're all great!

[John Kirk]

I've only played Merion twice, but the 3rd hole stood out as special to me as well.  Mostly, I found it visually attractive, playing across the filed to a green perched on a bluff.  Simple and stunning.  It's also a tricky devil, as putts from above the hole are quite difficult.

[Dan Herrmann]

Tricky - sure is.  Try playing from that bunker on the right.  You can't really see the green and a shot hit too far ends up in the creek.   A masterful golf hole.

[ChipOat]

#3 gets lost in a discussion of the better known holes at Merion in the same way that Winged Foot East sort of gets lost in a comparison to its more famous partner.  #3 is right up there with #12 (from the back) as the most underrated hole(s) on the course.  From the new back tee at 215+ uphill, #3 is REALLY hard and, IMO, REALLY good.

[Sean_A]

I liked the 3rd.  To me it sort of belongs with 16 & 17 in the look of the hole - its a bit more rugged.  That said, I think the 9th is my favourite short hole on the course.  When I think about it, Merion has a very good set of 3s.  All of the holes are well above average and there is an excellent variety. 

Ciao

[Mike Sweeney]

My personal ranking and for comparison purposes they are: 3, 13, 17, 9












Visually from the tee, #3 does not stand out like 9 and 17 which play downhill, or 13 with the clubhouse and bunkering.

[mike_malone]

 I would agree that #3 is the top par three at Merion. The size and complexity of the green coupled with the uphill approach is special. I have never understood the love for #17. I see #9 with it's narrow approach as second best. #13 is one dimensional to me.

[BCrosby]

The par 4's at Merion are what make it great. Lots of variety, different challenges, different looks. Lots of temptations. Not a weak one in the bunch.

To take the contrary view, Merion is great notwithstanding its par 5's and par 3's. I think 3, 9 and 17 are long, brutal, and unforgiving and the 13th is not terribly interesting.

Bob



 

[DMoriarty]

Personally I thought the 3rd was every bit as good as the 17th but now I am starting to wonder if I have misjudged it.    I loved the diagonal element created by the intimidating front right bunker, and also love that there was a bit of illusion created in that there was more to the hole than this diaglonal strategy.  I thought the hole used the natural landform brilliantly and the internall contouring of the green which provided both strategy and variable pin positions was some of the best I have seen.

Am I reading too much into it?  Does the hole have a weakness that I do not know about?  Did I miss something?

I too thought the hole to be very good, but I am left-handed and the hole really fit my eye.  Do you think one reason it is overlooked is that it does not fit the eye of a right-handed player as well, because the direction the green is angled?   I always feel like holes that call for a draw fit my eye better and I assume it is the same for many right-handers.   

Playing from the wrong side of the ball may be one reason I can more readily accept that the hole has some similarities to to a mirror image Redan.   While the ball may not roll to the back-right, in one of my few good shots of my round there, I hit a mid-iron to the left side of the green and it fed down to the right side of the green.   

Conceptually the green somewhat reminded me of the mirror image of the description of the eighth at Columbia Country Club in the tenth installment of the Instructive Golf Holes series in the Green Section Bulletin, where the green is described as "bean-shaped and slopes from the right to the left and from the back to the front, being lowest at the extreme left.  In other words, the slope is something like that of half a saucer."  According to the article the intent is for a well hit shot to roll along the green from right to left "in a semi-circle." 

While the 3rd at Merion is not "bean-shaped," it does slope from back to front and left to right, and it gave this left-handed golfer the impression that a well hit shot with perhaps a little draw spin would roll to from left to right, thus avoiding the need to mess with the scary bunker front right.   

It was the thrill of my round when something like this actually happened. 

[TEPaul]

Bob:

It's funny how so many people who don't know much about Merion seem to fall in love with the 13th, and that includes Nick Faldo. As for the 3rd hole, it may not seem like the correct shot to some but I pretty much always tried to hit a draw up in there because the basic left to right tilt of the green can hold up that shot on the green and for a hole of that length a draw always felt more powerful to me--eg I could use a club or two less.

[Mike Sweeney]

Question for the Merion historians! 

When was the pond put in and subsequently taken out of #17? Who put it in and who took it out?

I don't know the answers, but think it was taken out in the late 80's.

PS. For those not familiar, there was a pond at the bottom of the stairs into the quarry on #17 that was never in play and was probably no more than a foot deep in the late 70's early 80's.

[JSlonis]

David,

Count me in for someone who loves the 3rd hole, it's one of my favorite par 3's anywhere.  I think the green is worldclass and obviously very difficult.  The one thing I haven't cared for recently is the extremely tough fescue grass on the face of the right bunker.  It's a very severe penaly for a shot that may not be far off line.  I've said this in previous threads...it's much better to miss that green 20 yards right as opposed to 2 yards right.  During the Philly Open there last year, our group searched for nearly 5 minutes for a ball a couple of steps from the edge of the green.  My playing partner ended taking an unplayable lie on a ball that was only a couple yards from the green.

I don't mind the punishment fitting the crime in golf, but it's very harsh in this case.  I'd be surprised to see a similar setup for these bunker surrounds when the US Open finally rolls around.

[TEPaul]

MikeS:

Where did you hear there was a pond in the quarry on #17? I remember when it was wet or had water (and other stuff ) in there but that may've just been a drainage thing that was eventually changed.

[DMoriarty]

Question for the Merion historians! 

When was the pond put in and subsequently taken out of #17? Who put it in and who took it out?

I don't know the answers, but think it was taken out in the late 80's.

PS. For those not familiar, there was a pond at the bottom of the stairs into the quarry on #17 that was never in play and was probably no more than a foot deep in the late 70's early 80's.

I know that the area was originally used as an ice skating rink in the winter when the course first opened, but I know nothing of a pond in 70s.   

[John Shimp]

I played Merion a few weeks ago and agree that the fescue all around the green was really tough on any miss -- even a good miss a bit left.  I wouldn't rank it as one of the greatest par 3's i've palyed though.  For someone with a draw, its not a real hard target to hit with a 6 or 7 iron and a good miss isn't hard to manage a bogey.  The putting surface itself is terrific and easy to blow up on, but 2 putts arent that hard to come by compared to some other Merion holes (eg. 12).

[David_Elvins]

It's funny how so many people who don't know much about Merion seem to fall in love with the 13th

What do you think of 13, Tom?  I felt it slightly disapointing.  Does it get brownie points from some based on its length? There are plenty of other short threes that I would rank higher.  Or are there a few intricacies to it that I missed.

With regard to the 3rd hole, thanks to everyone for their reponses.

Has the grass face in the right hand bunker always extended so far down or has the bunker had a flashed face in the past?

[Mike Sweeney]

MikeS:

Where did you hear there was a pond in the quarry on #17? I remember when it was wet or had water (and other stuff ) in there but that may've just been a drainage thing that was eventually changed.

Tom and Moriarity

Once and for all you guys don't know jack! If we are going to have some sort of tissy fit over pond versus drainage, I am taking my game to the new Morrison site. 

Go speak with Richie's kids. Joe Valentine probably still can't make a free throw, he never could at St Margaret's. I did not hear anything. I PLAAYYED IT.

Tom maybe you were still a LONG Islander. Did you cheer for The Flyers or The Islanders when Kate Smith sang "God Bless America"? Please turn in your pass to Willie Dow?



When the US Amateur was at Merion last trip they had a picture of the 17th with the pond on the USGA website. Redanman, Tom Paul, nobody recognized the hole except for The Philly Kid.

David, you still don't get that Philly guys would never let some guy from CHICAGO route their course.

Tom and David, your both wrong!!!!!!!

[Mike Sweeney]

The picture is gone. First I had to straighten out the USGA for the 1995 US Amateur. Now Tom Paul and Moriarity. What would this place do without me??!!

http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,19443.0.html

PS. Feeling the Jaka Ego after straightening him out this morning. 

[BVince]

So beautiful....thanks for posting the pictures Mike

[Gerry B]

they are all great one shotters - was there on sunday - 3 is a beauty but 17 is a beast - the pin on sunday was at the top of the shelf. in fact they might have had the traditional us open sunday pins which they do from time to time - because there were some tough locations.

as 17 falls in the midst of that all world 5 hole finish it might be more vividly remembered by those who play it.

[Mike Sweeney]

So beautiful....thanks for posting the pictures Mike

Bryon,

No problem. I was actually there for this one:

http://www.flyershistory.net/cgi-bin/kate.cgi

"The following season Kate worked her magic yet again. A live performance in game 7 of the semifinals inspired a victory over the New York Islanders as the Flyers continued on their way to a second straight Stanley Cup."

These bozos from Long Island and California come to Philly and start talking trash. They will never ever understand Philly or Kate Smith !!! 

[Gerry B]

kate was definitely a good luck charm but the flyers were an expansion team as were the islanders - so demerit points for lack of tradition. original 6 or bust! the national anthem at the old chicago stadium was hard to beat. plus the players had to negotiate a set of stairs in skates to get to their locker room.

[ChipOat]

Mike Sweeney et al:

David Moriarty is correct that there was a skating pond in the quarry during the early years.  There was also a skating HUT on the ridge between the pond and the green and, if memory serves, there is a picture of it in Tolhurst's edition of Golf At Merion (perhaps not).

The club archives probably have some background on when that went away.  I can tell you that the bottom of the quarry had only a drainage ditch in the 1960's and early 1970's.  At some point, the drainage pipe(s) got clogged and a swamp formed.  Pictures might show whether that was prior to the '81 Open or afterwards - I'm guessing beforehand.  Anyway, a decision was made to leave it that way and, ultimately, the area was staked and lined in red as a real live Water Hazard.  The thing got deep enough that the footpath at the bottom of the stairs from the 17th tee box was raised, widened and covered with wood chips.  All this took a couple of years to evolve.

It got complicated some years later when the club was decided to eliminate the swamp and "restore" that part of the golf course (not sure why).  That proved easier said than done as the area had, by now, become an official "wetlands" according to somebody who makes issues of those things.  There were several interesting critters living down there so opening the drainpipes and drying the place out became something more than just doing it.

At any rate, it got done.

The real effect of the Water Hazard was on the tee shots from #18 (especially from the back tees), not #17.  While the red stakes were in place, if you failed to clear the quarry wall on the right (there used to be trees there that often kicked your ball back down), you could lift your ball from the hazard and there was a drop area to the right of the Members' tee box (looking at it as you played #18).  A Lost Ball or Unplayable Lie situation wasn't operative.  You were still looking at double bogey, but making the fairway in 3 shots and playing on from there was the norm.  Without the hazard, if your tee ball stays in the quarry, the best option (if you have one), is usually to re-tee and have the same daunting drive as before - now for your THIRD shot.  Now you're looking at double bogey only if you make par with your second effort.

The problem with the tee shot is more difficult without the Water Hazard in place.

You know what - I just made a post on GCA regarding both golf architecture and the history of Merion's design without criticizing anybody.  What a concept!

[JSlonis]

I played Merion a few weeks ago and agree that the fescue all around the green was really tough on any miss -- even a good miss a bit left.  I wouldn't rank it as one of the greatest par 3's i've palyed though.  For someone with a draw, its not a real hard target to hit with a 6 or 7 iron and a good miss isn't hard to manage a bogey.  The putting surface itself is terrific and easy to blow up on, but 2 putts arent that hard to come by compared to some other Merion holes (eg. 12).

John,

There is a back tee on that hole that can make it play anywhere from 205-230 depending on the hole location.  Perhaps the day you played, the hole was in an easier spot, but on many occasions, I've seen it tough to 2 putt from 10 feet depending on where your ball is on that green.

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