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John Kavanaugh

Saw him lurking but can't send him an IM until he posts.

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
JK, was he there, or Buda Cup? 
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
Well, I must say that although I've attended 3 other US Opens (CC, PB & BPB) I am amazed at how well the USGA runs the event. If the devil is in the details they get it right. Buses left on a time schedule; your bus leaves 4 minutes after it pulls up whether it's full or there are only 3 people on board. Projections of gridlock were completely wrong as traffic moved smoothly both from the Polo Fields for volunteers and Qualcom Stadium for the general public. Caddies wear blue, gold or white bibs and the free programs indicate this as well as the players scores; you can indentify a player you have never seen before from a distance.  We had 15 people to marshall the par 3 8th; this seemed like overkill, until Tiger's group comes through and then you wish you had more. Not one Quiet Please sign is used; the 2 marshalls on the tee have yellow wooden paddles to indicate ball flight; everyone else just holds up their hands. Every green had a police officer present as well as officers walking with the group. They turned the 9th and 10th fairways of the North course into a massive driving range; it also seemed like overkill, but that was proven wrong when it was virtully full on Wed. Lines for concesions moved smoothly and beer was $6. Never a wait to use the rest rooms as each concession stand had a village of them enclosed in a wood lattice. Did I mention the free massages in the volunteer hospitality tent.

As for the golf course I think you were proved right; it might not be a fun place for the average golfer to play but did prove the perfect venue to contest the modern game. The setup was fantastic; players were allowed to actually miss the fairway and recover from the first strip of rough. Venturing past that was a sure 1 shot penalty to get out of the thick stuff; a fitting penalty for being that far off line. Ironically Tiger was able to go farther off line than that on several occasions. The gallery ropes are spread a little bit further back than a regular tournament to ensure the rough does not get trampled by the spectators; his lie on the right side of 13 on Sat. went far enough offline to get a good lie in the trampled rough. He was also far enough ofline yesterday on 15 to find the fairway bunker on 9.

The greens were quite receptive on both Mon. and Tues. as there was marine layer all day. Luckily the sun came out Wed. afternoon just enough to firm up the greens. We watched them stimp #8 on Mon. and Tues and they were not running at 13; probably just under 11. Every day the USGA would also use the "Thump-o-meter", a device that drops a steel ball on a 2 foot steel shaft onto the green surface. A gauge is connected to it and reading are taken in various areas. The impact is such that the operator has to fix his ball mark after they are done. We didn't see any water applied to the greens at any time during the event; except for a light syringing just before they were cut, both in the morning and evening.

The fairways were like nothing I've ever seen before. They really were perfect for hitting irons off; let's hope they stay that way. This would require that carts remain on the path; seems a small price to pay for such a big payoff.

Spectating was fairly easy, so long as you din't want to follow Tiger. I had no trouble following Ells group the first day. I watched the Home Depot brigade of Katayama, Jimenez and Weekly (they all showed up in orange) Thurs. and had no trouble following the action. It helps to have 20,000 of the 50,000 spectators seated. Although the Open draws a lot of noncore golfers, behavior for the most part was good. I just wish that every idiot who shouts "get in the hole" would imeadiately spontaneously combust; it makes "you the man" sound good.

There are 2 Charity Tournaments today and then Thurs. and Fri. play was determined by lottery for those in possesion of a City Card. Regular play from the reservation system and dawn patrol will resume on Sat. Prices will remain at $49 for residents and $181 for nonresidents on the weekend. Rates go to $49 and $200 next year and to $73 and $218 in 2010, then to $76 and $229 in 2011. The North course won't fully open until Sept. of this year. All in all I am very happy to have played a small part of the event, and proud that San Diego could come through in the clutch.
« Last Edit: June 17, 2008, 06:51:15 PM by Pete Lavallee »
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

George Pazin

  • Karma: +0/-0
You should be proud of that write up as well, thanks.
Big drivers and hot balls are the product of golf course design that rewards the hit one far then hit one high strategy.  Shinny showed everyone how to take care of this whole technology dilemma. - Pat Brockwell, 6/24/04

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
One other observation: Many people who have played there recently have all seemed to mention how difficult the greens are to read. Everything that I saw at the 8th hole confirmed this. When the hole was on the bottom tier everyone putting down from the upper tier missed by at least a foot the right. When the pin was in the middle of the upper tier every to the left  or right of the pin missed high. Since the greens aren't "connected" to the terrain they are very difficult to read. That's what made those two eagle putts that Tiger made on Sat. so great; every player through 13 so far missed that putt several feet left. Same with 18, everyone was confused but him. I doubt this is due to specific local knowledge, just a great pair of eyes. I think I'll get relaziked too!
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

John Kavanaugh

Congrats Pete...I am truly happy for you and all the good people of San Diego.

What do you think...Does Torrey have at least one world class hole?  If so, which?

Pete Lavallee

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think 13 was a very interesting hole, especially with the front pin placement. The new back tee is pretty cool, it makes it a cape hole with a much wider fairway; but you need that because to get home in 2 from there you really have to rip one. From the regular tee the hole is tight and favors the accurate driver more that the bomber. But those bunkers short of the green are too hideous looking for world class. I would probably say 14 is the best hole on the course; although I was unimpressed with playing it from the ladies tee at 277 with an up pin, it was just a par 3 with a 3 wood.
"...one inoculated with the virus must swing a golf-club or perish."  Robert Hunter

Bob_Huntley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pete,

You should send this to the NY Times.

I am sure that the USGA would love to read it as well.

I am forwarding this to Ron Read, the USGA official who announces the players on the first tee. He lives but a mile away.

Bob

Dean Stokes

  • Karma: +0/-0
I think 13 was a very interesting hole, especially with the front pin placement. The new back tee is pretty cool, it makes it a cape hole with a much wider fairway; but you need that because to get home in 2 from there you really have to rip one. From the regular tee the hole is tight and favors the accurate driver more that the bomber. But those bunkers short of the green are too hideous looking for world class. I would probably say 14 is the best hole on the course; although I was unimpressed with playing it from the ladies tee at 277 with an up pin, it was just a par 3 with a 3 wood.
Couldn't agree more. When I saw them on the front tee of #14 I thought I was watching the junior club championship at our local club. It looked ridiculous and out of place - the only mistake I think Davis made in what was a great Championship.

They are going to have to find a way to stop Tiger getting perfect lies 60 yards off the fairway though - he might be brilliant but he also seems mighty lucky for some of the crappy shots he hits. >:(
Living The Dream in The Palm Beaches....golfing, yoga-ing, horsing around and working damn it!!!!!!!

Peter Pallotta

Pete - what do you think, are the prospects for "micro contours" looking up?

Don't know if this was brought up on the other TP threads, but the greens' micro contours were mentioned on Saturday. I thought "hmmm, greens that give not much trouble to the average or bogie golfer, but when running fast give the pros a hard time." Is that gonna catch on at all, or at slightly slower speeds do they simply provide too little fun?

Peter 

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Peter Pallota, I'm not sure who mentioned the micro contours other than moi, but, I have seen local pros bitch like crazy about them.

On poa greens rolling less than approx. 9, I suspect they don't even register. 
If you noticed on Sat. it seemed like the only putts going in were from downtown. Such is the nature of Poa. Firmer struck putts hold their line. Tentative ones are at the mercy of the brocoli tops.

Pete Lavallee- Wonderful recap from your perspective. I must say the only negative was the ability to get a better lie by missing the fairway farther out. Some might poo poo that notion that feeling it's no big deal and rationalize it like a teamster in NY. "What ya gonna do about it?"

It's a serious issue in my book and a fundamental flaw.

"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

Peter Pallotta

Adam - thanks.

"Such is the nature of Poa. Firmer struck putts hold their line. Tentative ones are at the mercy of the brocoli tops."

What's your view on that? A good thing? Good once in a while? Not good if it leads to less contoured greens (at least when they're Poa greens)?

Thanks
Peter

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Peter, I'm a fan of Poa for exactly that reason. The golfer who takes control, striking his putt with authority, seems better than just being able to breath on a putt and hit it str8.

The speed race has led to, or allowed, expectations that have increased the costs to golfers while, IMO, minimizing the fun and satisfaction that comes from figuring it out.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

David Stamm

  • Karma: +0/-0
Peter, not to answer for Adam, but when you are used to Poa, they are not a big deal. Pebble (like alot of Cal courses) has quite a bit of Poa. Adam is spot on on the description what it's like. In the afternoon's they get VERY bumpy and one must be commited and firm with the stroke. I don't know if it's a good or bad thing, it's just what you used to. Tiger has alot of experience on them, so therefore knows how to putt on them.
"The object of golf architecture is to give an intelligent purpose to the striking of a golf ball."- Max Behr

JohnV

There are only three solutions that I can think of for getting good lies by going very wide.

1) Eliminate all spectators
2) Allow spectators to trample down all the rough
3) Eliminate all rough and make everything fairway

I doubt that any of them will happen.

Peter Pallotta

Adam, David - thanks. I have no experience with Poa, and the fast greens that still demanded firm, solid strokes despite -- or because of -- the micro contours, were intriguing to me....

Peter

Adam Clayman

  • Karma: +0/-0
JVB, Surely there's one more possible solution? Controlling where the gallery can trample.
 SInce you mention low mow everywhere, I though of ANGC. I don't recall this ever happening there.
"It's unbelievable how much you don't know about the game you've been playing your whole life." - Mickey Mantle

RJ_Daley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Peter, how can you not have experience on poa in Canada?  It must be dominant there on many older public courses...
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

John Mayhugh

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great writeup of your experiences, Pete.  You should have been blogging every day.

I figured that traffic would be a nightmare.  Sounds like everything went just right.

Jason Connor

  • Karma: +0/-0
Great description, Pete.

Wouldn't it be great for the course if the city would make the South walking only like BPB?

I've played and walked it and thought it was a pretty easy walk, much easier than BPB is.

Given they can pretty much set the prices they want anyway, cart revenue wouldn't be a consideration.




We discovered that in good company there is no such thing as a bad golf course.  - James Dodson

John Kavanaugh

I believe that Pinehurst #2 is also cart path only.

Lou_Duran

  • Karma: +0/-0
Pete,

Given your experience with #8, would it work well as a redan?

As a result of what you saw during the week, do you still feel the same about the architecture of TPS?   

Brent Hutto

There are only three solutions that I can think of for getting good lies by going very wide.

1) Eliminate all spectators
2) Allow spectators to trample down all the rough
3) Eliminate all rough and make everything fairway

I doubt that any of them will happen.

4) Put OB lines 15 yards off the fairway on every hole. Keep spectators outside those lines.

I doubt that will happen either but it's more likely than 1 or 3.

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