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Joel Zuckerman

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The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« on: June 04, 2008, 07:33:11 PM »
Thought the GCA'ers of the world would appreciate some imagery from the new Dye Course at French Lick.  If you'd like to see some photos, along with the verbiage of the chapter of my upcoming Pete Dye Book, please click on:
 
http://www.vagabondgolfer.com/Dye_FrenchLick_pp252_255.pdf

It's particularly appropriate from a timing perspective, considering the Boston Celtics are back in the NBA Finals for the first time in more than 20 years.

Also--if you'd like to attempt to win some high-end sunglasses, please answer the Dye-related question at www.vagabondgolfer.com  Just click on the sunglass icon on the homepage.

Andy Troeger

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #1 on: June 04, 2008, 07:44:11 PM »
Joel,
Thanks for posting. When does the Dye course open officially?

Bart Bradley

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Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #2 on: June 04, 2008, 07:53:42 PM »
Wow:  Looks great.  I used to travel to French Lick annually while in medical school in Indy to play all day...they had a Spring special including cart, lunch and play all day for $36 .. ..things certainly have changed.  My buddies and I would arrive at dawn and play 45-54 holes...we had several wonderful days...These photos are calling me to make a pilgrimage back to French Lick.  Thanks for sharing.

Bart

Mike Nuzzo

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Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2008, 09:10:15 PM »
Thanks for sharing.
They have a bunker on top of a hill at Wintonbury also.
The mowing and shapes are too much for me.
It looks way over shaped.
They would be the last ones on earth that need to overshape.
Why do they?
Cheers
Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

Paul Saathoff

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #4 on: June 04, 2008, 10:46:04 PM »
Thanks for sharing this!

I've been really excited about seeing this project.  I was working on the construction crew at the Hill and Valley courses and saw the Dye course in its beginning stages.  The site is truly beautiful and it looks like the course will be alot of fun. 

I agree that the mowing lines are a little extreme in that 3rd pic, hopefully this will go away.  Personally, I like the "overshaping" as it adds even more visual interest IMO.  The "volcano bunker" in the 2nd pic is reminiscent of the one on the 9th at Colleton River.  I also like the grass bunkers, its an interesting look. 

Joel, is the cart path in the 3rd pic representative of the rest of the course? 

Theres a lot of hope that this course will bring a major tourney back to French Lick.  It would be great for the area if that happened.  I'm ready to play it... when does it open?       

Randy Thompson

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Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #5 on: June 04, 2008, 10:54:58 PM »
Looks like the unemployment will be decreasing in the near future in the area! ???

Matt Kardash

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #6 on: June 04, 2008, 11:59:42 PM »
I find this course refreshing to look at because it looks different than everything that gets praised these days. I agree that the mowing lines in that one pic look kinda weird, but there is a lot that looks kinda cool in these pics. I'd like to see more.

P.S. The volcano bunker looks cool to me.
the interviewer asked beck how he felt "being the bob dylan of the 90's" and beck quitely responded "i actually feel more like the bon jovi of the 60's"

Chris_Clouser

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #7 on: June 05, 2008, 07:26:51 AM »
I was just recently at French Lick a couple of weeks ago and the course is quite impressive.  It is on a much higher location than the other two courses at the resort.  Of those photos shown, the second of the three is the one I like the best.  That third pic looks weird, almost like someone photoshopped it in some way.  Though the sightlines from the course are impressive (it was designed to have 18 wonderful views of the surrounding area), based on the holes I saw, I think the Ross course is still better.  Granted I didn't see everything, so that could change when I go back next year.  It is not the best work that I have seen from Dye in Indiana by a long shot. 

Andy,

The course will open next year from what the resort staff told me.  I don't have any pictures of significance as it was an abysmal day to take photos when I was there. 


Oh, one other thing, I just checked online and the highest point in Indiana is in Wayne County outside of Richmond and near the Ohio border.  For some reason I was thinking it was Crown Hill in Indy.  But I knew that it wasn't the course in French Lick.
« Last Edit: June 05, 2008, 07:31:55 AM by Chris_Clouser »

John Kavanaugh

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2008, 09:18:32 AM »
The course fits the scale of the property and resort very well.  It is a big course at a big resort for a big price built for casino patrons.  A minmalistic design would have made zero sense for their intended sparce demographic.   French Lick has now become the second best destination golf resort in our country behind Bandon.

Mike Nuzzo

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #9 on: June 05, 2008, 09:59:08 AM »
John,
That makes sense - they are fitting their cleintele.
Yes it is probably fun - for someone like me.
Can they play it?

Thinking of Bob, Rihc, Bill, George, Neil, Dr. Childs, & Tiger.

John Kavanaugh

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #10 on: June 05, 2008, 10:06:03 AM »
John,
That makes sense - they are fitting their cleintele.
Yes it is probably fun - for someone like me.
Can they play it?



Can anyone play a Pete Dye course?  Remember that people who search out casinos do not fear failure, so they should be fine.

Chris_Clouser

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #11 on: June 05, 2008, 10:06:49 AM »
John,

You really think it is that high on the list.  I doubt the people at Pinehurst, Kohler and Pebble Beach would agree with you.  It is easily the best in Indiana, but it isn't like there is any real competition.  Unless you count Swan Lake? ::)

What I am afraid of is that they will up the price on the Ross course to offset some of the cost of their newest toy.  

Chris_Clouser

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2008, 10:08:07 AM »
Mike,

Several of Dye's courses in Indiana are very playable.  The one that I've been to that seemed on the edge of unplayable was Purdue.  Brickyard, The Fort, Mystic Hills and several of his older designs are very fair.

John Kavanaugh

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2008, 10:12:01 AM »
John,

You really think it is that high on the list.  I doubt the people at Pinehurst, Kohler and Pebble Beach would agree with you.  It is easily the best in Indiana, but it isn't like there is any real competition.  Unless you count Swan Lake? ::)

What I am afraid of is that they will up the price on the Ross course to offset some of the cost of their newest toy.  

I think when you take into account the location, price, hotel, casino and pace of play it will be better than Pinehurst, Kohler or Pebble Beach.  I do not believe there is any intention of crowding up the Dye course which is a huge plus.

Andy Troeger

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #14 on: June 05, 2008, 10:30:16 AM »
I'm looking forward to this one. Most of the Dye courses I've played have been pretty playable generally. If I was going to make a list of the most unplayable courses I've seen the only one that would make that list would be Kampen at Purdue (as Chris already mentioned).

I look forward to seeing the Ross course again too. I played it 6-7 times about 12 years ago and at the time didn't have much knowledge of what makes good architecture, but didn't think that highly of the course. I get the impression I'd like it better now, but have a hard time putting it in the class with those other resorts. The resort is nice, but admittedly after going down there four years in a row for a tournament I was ready to try something else. Sounds like that has been improved significantly as well.

Chris_Clouser

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #15 on: June 05, 2008, 10:52:44 AM »
Andy,

I was blown away by the improvements at the Ross course from my one time visiting it several years ago.  It is a much better course now than the last time you visited.  I didn't spend much time in the hotel or casino though, so I won't speak to those items. 

John,

I agree the casino is a huge plus for them, but from all reports, French Lick has been really struggling in comparison to the other casinos in the state.  A lot of that is due to its isolated location, it is a pain to get there from anywhere.  I wonder if long-term they will be able to make it and then what happens to the courses.  I think they need to change their focus to more of a golf resort that happens to have a casino from their current identity of a casino with golf courses.  A good example of that perception, my parents just went down to French Lick this weekend.  I asked my dad if he was going to play golf.  The only course he knew about was the Bendelow course.  And they go down there a couple of times a year. 

John Kavanaugh

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #16 on: June 05, 2008, 11:54:39 AM »
The resort is backed by an owner so solid that money or number of rounds will not be an issue.  I don't think they care how many people play the Dye course only that the ones who do have a great and memorable experience.  For me, nothing beats a great course and an open tee sheet...

Joel Zuckerman

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #17 on: June 05, 2008, 12:53:38 PM »
I feel compelled to relate to all interested parties how often during my year-long "Dye-tinerary" a pro or GM would tell me that their course was a "typical Pete Dye."  My conclusion after intensive research:  (and I mean intensive--just the Indiana--Ohio portion of my journey was 15 separate courses played in 9 days, including 1,000 road miles and writing two chapters a night until 1:00 or 2:00 a.m.)  Ain't no such thing as "typical Dye."  The Indy portion of the trip was particularly interesting--seeing the genesis of Pete's very early work--his first 9 at what was then El Dorado, now known as Dye's Walk.  An even better example--Maple Creek (originally known as Heather Hills) his first 18.  It's from the early 60s, but seems of the "Golden Age," with the small greens, simple routing, lack of intrusive bunkering and almost non-existent cart paths.  Then he hit his stride with Crooked Stick, his first "big-time" course, and onward/upward with The Fort, the reworking of Brickyard, Purdue, etc.  The fact he and Tim Liddy built Purdue with student help exclusively is one of the most notable features of that project, difficult and long though the course may be.

Chris_Clouser

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #18 on: June 05, 2008, 01:23:15 PM »
Joel,

I agree with you about Maple Creek.  It is a really nice course on the edge of Indy that feels like it belongs to a different era than today's work by Dye. 

Did you get to places like Sahm Park, Eagle Creek, Plum Creek and Bridgewater in the Indy area as well?

Having seen all of his courses here in Indiana, I would say that the earlier works truly do feel different from one another, but his later works (Brickyard, Fort, Purdue) have a lot of similarities with the way he uses bunkering to alternate shot patterns on a hole.  Also something else that I see on almost all of his work is the way he kicks up one of the front corners of the green to allow for a little bit of a running approach into the putting surface. 

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #19 on: June 05, 2008, 03:26:54 PM »

Theres a lot of hope that this course will bring a major tourney back to French Lick. 

I believe the Ross and Dye courses will host the 2010 PGA Professional championship. Don't know if that counts as a major in your book, but it's a start.

Nick Pozaric

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Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #20 on: June 23, 2008, 05:59:42 PM »
After playing a round today at the Donald Ross course, which was absolutley fantastic btw, we were given a tour of the Pete Dye course.  This course is fantastic.  Construction is nearing completion and it looks like it is well worth the wait.  They are planning on opening mid next year.  The course will be open to resort guests only.  They said Dye has made 78 site visits since the start and he is saying wll be his best course yet.  THe back tees will measure over 8,100 yards.  There is a mansion that was built in the 1920s on top of the property that is being renovated into a super upscale lodging for VIP guests.  The greens are TINY.  From memory average green size is 2,400 square feet and one is actually 1,200 square feet.  The views from the tee boxes are incredible and you can see miles around.  I took some pictures with my cell phone and will try to post them later.

If you are anywhere close be sure to check out the Donald Ross course.  They course is in near perfect condtion and is so much fun to play.

Feel free to ask any questions and ill try my best to answer. 


Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #21 on: June 23, 2008, 06:38:09 PM »
How can the greens be 2,400 square feet on average?  That would be 40 feet by 60 feet ...

Nick Pozaric

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #22 on: June 23, 2008, 10:23:46 PM »
How can the greens be 2,400 square feet on average?  That would be 40 feet by 60 feet ...
Thats what I was told and they are tiny.  My living room is bigger than most of the greens there

Nick Pozaric

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #23 on: June 23, 2008, 10:38:04 PM »
here are a few pics.  I know its diffucult to tell scale but its all I have for now.  Also posted is a pic of the "volcano" bunkers




Jim Colton

Re: The new Pete Dye Golf Course at French Lick
« Reply #24 on: June 23, 2008, 10:51:12 PM »
8,100 yard course with 2,400 sq foot bunkers.  Yikes! That has to be some sort of yds/sq ft record.

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