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Mike Hendren

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Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« on: May 10, 2008, 08:11:27 PM »
I'm not saying.
I'm just asking.

 ;)
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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

Mark Pearce

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Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #1 on: May 10, 2008, 08:15:07 PM »
At last.  A real GCA thread, and a sane one at that.
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Mike_Young

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Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #2 on: May 10, 2008, 09:47:10 PM »
I think it would be fine as long as it did not affect the showers...... ;D ;D ;D
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

James Bennett

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Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #3 on: May 10, 2008, 09:49:41 PM »
Mike

do we know who planned the showers?

James B
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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #4 on: May 10, 2008, 10:01:03 PM »
Quote from: James Bennett on May 10, 2008, 09:49:41 PM
Mike

do we know who planned the showers?

James B
James,
Yes...we do but I am still researching if the original heads were moved when the tile was replaced....it also seems the architect died and his plumber actually moved a few things after his death which greatly improved these showers....that plumber became a great shower architect..... ;D ;D
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #5 on: May 10, 2008, 10:09:26 PM »
....can we do Pebble too?

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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Michael Blake

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #6 on: May 10, 2008, 11:19:03 PM »
Quote from: James Bennett on May 10, 2008, 09:49:41 PM


do we know who planned the showers?

James B


I think we've learned the importance of semantics from the main Merion thread.

So....by 'planned' do you mean 'to lay out?'   ;D
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Mark Pearce

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2008, 02:15:21 AM »
By showers do we mean bathroom fixtures or intermittent weather features?  And do we mean the same as it meant back then?
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In June I will be riding the first three stages of this year's Tour de France route for charity.  630km (394 miles) in three days, with 7800m (25,600 feet) of climbing for the William Wates Memorial Trust (https://rideleloop.org/the-charity/) which supports underprivileged young people.

Tony Petersen

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #8 on: May 11, 2008, 03:48:07 AM »
Quote from: James Bennett on May 10, 2008, 09:49:41 PM
do we know who planned the showers?

I have not been able to locate any ship manifests which mentioned Merion Showers between the years of 1908-1929... Perhaps they are a myth as well  ;D
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Ski - U - Mah... University of Minnesota... "Seven beers followed by two Scotches and a thimble of marijuana and it's funny how sleep comes all on it's own.”

Melvyn Morrow

Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #9 on: May 11, 2008, 03:55:50 AM »
Michael
“I think we've learned the importance of semantics from the main Merion 
 thread”

Have we? I’m still trying to catch up. Semantics, who was responsible for laying out that one and which part of the course are we talking about.  ???Whatever, it’s a good name for a hole… ‘Semantics’. ::)

Tony
Myth may be based upon an early fact, remember the earth was
once flat. 8)
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Steve_ Shaffer

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #10 on: May 11, 2008, 07:46:16 AM »
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 07:48:44 AM by Steve_ Shaffer »
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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #11 on: May 11, 2008, 08:02:29 AM »
Steve....I think that Speakman was responsible for specifying the original 12 orifice head that you have pictured........but somewhere during construction the 18 orifice head was substituted.

Most members were fine with the changes and the 18 hole version is what is used and accepted today.

As to who was responsible for these changes, and why did he do them?....we can only conjecture.
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2008, 08:05:58 AM »
Steve,
I think your post above only serves to confuse people.  The shower head is not the shower ...only a small part....the height of the faucets on the exposed pipes, the width of the marble, the diameter of the pipes and then some "restoration" guy  comes in and places a modern tile through out....IMHO the shower design starts with the room(routing) and merges into the individual stalls(holes).  Trying to consider the shower head itself as the shower is ridiculous... ;D ;D ;D ;D
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #13 on: May 11, 2008, 08:12:45 AM »
Without the shower heads, there would be no shower. ;D

It's strange that the Speakman company history does not mention the Merion installation.

Does anyone have the original specs?

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"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

John Burzynski

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #14 on: May 11, 2008, 08:20:31 AM »
I am not sure that the early architects took into account the hardness of the water in the showers at Merion.  Later architects considered the larger orifices to pass water at a higher rate, so they took the old orifices out and installed new orifices, even though they never consulted the earlier architects, and the newer architects took all of the credit for better water flow in the showers, even though the original shower design was definitely not theirs, according to a 1925 article unearthed at a Pennsylvania museum in their microfiche collection.

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paul cowley

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #15 on: May 11, 2008, 08:28:31 AM »
Steve....I can't speak to the Speakman specs.

 I do know that while Speakman was often credited with the use and layout of the heads.... I also know that many times a person under him, who was involved in the actual installation, would on occasion make practical changes and substitutions during the construction phase.  
« Last Edit: May 11, 2008, 08:33:17 AM by paul cowley »
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

paul cowley

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Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #16 on: May 11, 2008, 08:35:36 AM »
....bravo Shivas. ;D ;D ;D
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paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Doug Ralston

Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #17 on: May 11, 2008, 09:00:10 AM »
Perhaps we should just decide that discussions about Merion have been beaten to death and talk about other courses?

Or not.

Doug
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Peter Wagner

Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #18 on: May 11, 2008, 09:56:12 AM »
Shivas,
Stop with the Herb Kohler bullshit bold-faced lies!  You damn well know that Speakman's designs were blatant copies of the groundbreaking 1920's designs from Herbeau in Paris.  Why do you perpetuate this myopic self-advancing nonsense when you KNOW Kohler was not involved?  You are intentionally misleading people on this board and I won't stand for it! 

In research for my upcoming book, 'The hot chicks of 1930 Merion' (and yes, I name a few names!), I came across the original routing charts used for ALL plumbing throughout Merion's clubhouse.  Ahem, and YES it includes the ORIGINAL kitchen layout!  I am working on a 18,000 word essay that will once and for all flush this Kohler theory. Clearly, it was Herbeau's influence the whole time and anyone that doubts me need not go any further than comparing the faucet designs.  Just look at the faucets with your own eyes Shivas and tell me that's Kohler infuenced.  Yeah, right.

On a related topic, I find it odd that Merion showers have fallen in the latest Shower Digest and ShowerWeek ratings.  Idiots.  They have Riviera's showers ranked higher - please, Riv used 1/2 inch pipes for crissake!  1/2 INCH!!!  LOL!  Where do they get these raters?  Maybe this should be a separate message thread?

Stop with the crap Shivas. 

- Peter
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Mike_Young

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2008, 10:02:53 AM »
Another shower change I find quite disturbing is the "fact" that as generations grew taller the faucet handles were raised higher....it seems that the later generations were bending over more to cut on the showers and this was creating a few issues....there definitely should have a limit on faucet height....I know Kohler has tried to establish such and has done so in wisconsin....I don't know about Philly... ;D
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"just standing on a corner in Winslow Arizona"

Carl Nichols

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #20 on: May 11, 2008, 10:43:44 AM »
Quote from: Peter Wagner on May 11, 2008, 09:56:12 AM
Shivas,
Stop with the Herb Kohler bullshit bold-faced lies!  You damn well know that Speakman's designs were blatant copies of the groundbreaking 1920's designs from Herbeau in Paris.  Why do you perpetuate this myopic self-advancing nonsense when you KNOW Kohler was not involved?  You are intentionally misleading people on this board and I won't stand for it! 

In research for my upcoming book, 'The hot chicks of 1930 Merion' (and yes, I name a few names!), I came across the original routing charts used for ALL plumbing throughout Merion's clubhouse.  Ahem, and YES it includes the ORIGINAL kitchen layout!  I am working on a 18,000 word essay that will once and for all flush this Kohler theory. Clearly, it was Herbeau's influence the whole time and anyone that doubts me need not go any further than comparing the faucet designs.  Just look at the faucets with your own eyes Shivas and tell me that's Kohler infuenced.  Yeah, right.

On a related topic, I find it odd that Merion showers have fallen in the latest Shower Digest and ShowerWeek ratings.  Idiots.  They have Riviera's showers ranked higher - please, Riv used 1/2 inch pipes for crissake!  1/2 INCH!!!  LOL!  Where do they get these raters?  Maybe this should be a separate message thread?

Stop with the crap Shivas. 

- Peter

Great Post!
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Mike_Trenham

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2008, 09:05:58 AM »
We had the orginal drawings of the Merion Showers until our former and near ready for demolition manufacturing facility burned down in 2006.  Orginally we had thought it was looters removing brass and copper with torches, now we know it was just as likely a stray ash from one of Tom Paul's ciggerettes.  Maybe Tom should join the looters in jail.
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Proud member of a Doak 3.

Mike_Cirba

Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #22 on: May 12, 2008, 09:15:06 AM »
This may be the best Merion thread of all.    ;D



At least until we get into discussing the "Roads of Merion".   That's when John K. will likely make his appearance and we'll discuss once and for all where that road originally went before the Francis Landswap, and I'm sure John K. will demand core samples be taken.   ;)
« Last Edit: May 12, 2008, 09:24:51 AM by MichaelPaulCirba »
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Mike Hendren

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #23 on: May 12, 2008, 09:29:18 AM »
Shivas,

Please forward a check for $75 to my attention.  I have spewed coffee all over my keyboard and my employer has requested reimbursement. 

Mike Young,

Any documentation of the disposable razor allocation at Merion?



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Two Corinthians walk into a bar ....

tlavin

Re: Should We Blow Up Merion And Just Start Over?
« Reply #24 on: May 12, 2008, 11:18:28 AM »
Quote from: Doug Ralston on May 11, 2008, 09:00:10 AM
Perhaps we should just decide that discussions about Merion have been beaten to death and talk about other courses?

Or not.

Doug

This Merion obsession is driving me away from this board.

Hmmm.  Maybe that's the whole point of it!

But seriously folks, I think the Merion perseverations have jumped the shark.
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