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John Foley

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Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« on: April 28, 2008, 10:19:39 PM »
I don't know how many others are like me, but I love listening to baseball on the radio. When I was young I used to listed to Bob Murphy on the Mets and occasionally the Red Sox, the Orioles or even the Cards if the night was clear enough. I put a lot of miles on in my job now and XM is a savior as I get to listen to all the MLB I want.

Being a huge Red Sox fan I love to catch as many of their games as possible, but I'll listen to many others. One of the announcers I've come to enjoy is Ed Farmer on the White Sox broadcasts. He knowledgeable, tells a good story and paints a great picture.

Bringing it back to GCA - I look tonite, after hearing him on this afternoon's Orioles- White Sox game, and guess what I find out...

He's a Golf Digest rater. Who would have known!!
Integrity in the moment of choice

J_ Crisham

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 10:28:34 PM »
John, I can also add that Ed is a former caddy at Beverly CC. He grew up around the corner from the club. As a young man I caddied for Ed when he was pitching for the Sox. A hell of a nice guy plus a good tipper.

Forrest Richardson

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 10:56:29 PM »
Joe Garagiola — What better announcer does one need to hear?
— Forrest Richardson, Golf Course Architect/ASGCA
    www.golfgroupltd.com
    www.golframes.com

David Kelly

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 11:03:49 PM »
I like Ed Farmer so I would have pegged him as being a Golfweek rater instead of GD.
"Whatever in creation exists without my knowledge exists without my consent." - Judge Holden, Blood Meridian.

rjsimper

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #4 on: April 28, 2008, 11:13:20 PM »
Nothing better than a vintage Vin Scully Dodger game...

Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #5 on: April 28, 2008, 11:32:44 PM »
How Funny!

I just caddied for Ed last week at Calusa Pines. Nice guy with lots of funny stories. He was even supposed to bring Javier Vasquez to play with him but alas he had to pitch that night. :(

He offered to get me tickets to the game in a couple weeks in San Fran when I'll be out there and the Sox will be in town we'll see if he comes through.

Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

Joe Bausch

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008, 04:50:51 AM »
I've been fortunate to listen to hundreds of games from four outstanding announcers: 

1.  As a young boy outside of Detroit w/ Ernie Harwell on WJR.
2.  As a teenager in southern Indiana w/ Jack Buck on KMOX.
3.  As a young adult in SoCal w/ Vin Scully.
4.  Now w/ Harry Kalas in Philly.

Saying which is best is like debating which of the top ten classic golf courses is the best.  All of them are fantastic, IMO.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Craig Sweet

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 07:28:04 AM »
I miss Ralph Kiner, Lindsey Nelson and Bob Murphy...the voice(s) of the NY Mets.... :-[
LOCK HIM UP!!!

wsmorrison

Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 07:50:22 AM »
The Philadelphia Phillies were more often than not a sorry bunch of ballplayers, at least in my 45 years of watching and listening to them on the radio.  We've had some excellent broadcast teams with Harry Kalas, the Hall of Fame announcer, as the one remaining connection to the splendid past.  Now it seems that modern broadcasters need to talk all the time and treat every play like it is the equivalent of the D-Day landing, especially the basketball announcer in this town.

I grew up in an era when baseball games were only on TV once or twice a week.  It was the radio that connected us to the teams.  They were transistor radios that gave off a faint but pleasant odor of a sort of electrical way when warmed by the 9-volt battery inside.  We had Byron Saam, Bill "Soup" Campbell and one of the first ballplayers turned announcers, Richie Ashburn who joined the team after his retirement in 1962 as MVP of the worst team in major league history.  For the longest time he was the last man to retire having hit above .300 in his last season.  He wanted to retire while still on top having seen too many men hang on too long.  While he would surely have gotten his 3000th hit in the next 3-4 years, he decided to hang up the spikes (he was the fastest man in baseball in an era of Mays and Mantle) and go back to Nebraska to run for Congress.  If he stuck around long enough to get to that magic number, he wouldn't have had to wait another 32 years to get into the Hall of Fame, but he couldn't stand to lose a card game let alone a baseball game and the Mets were not going anywhere (at least not for another 7 years).  Well, it turns out a friend of his was running for Congress, so he decided to back off that plan and called up the TV producer for the Phils and asked him for a job.  He stumbled a bit for most of the first year but started to get the hang of it, being brought along by Saam and Campbell.  Being the most beloved athlete in Philadelphia history, and remaining so today, certainly helped.

Anyway, as a boy listening to those three and later after Saam retired and as a young adult when Kalas (a Chicagoan that worked in Houston) came on board, it was magic to listen to them no matter the score, which was usually a lopsided losing one.   Even the heartache of 1964 was a bit more bearable because of the broadcasters sharing the pain with us exactly as we were feeling it.

Harry and Rich became great friends and that comradery came through loud and clear.  One thing Bill Campbell told Rich when he first came on air was, if he didn't have anything to say, don't say anything.  So there'd be times when there was silence on the air.  When you dialed in the station (no pushbuttons) and heard nothing, you knew that in a bit, you'd hear something wonderful fromHarry's perfect voice or Rich's perfect timing or humorous comment.  You could hear Rich strike the match to light his pipe and the slow draw and exhale and it was calming, just like the pace of a ballgame.

People used to deliver food all the time to the announcer's booth and Rich loved pizza.  A wonderful pizza parlor, Celebres, is near the stadium and he used to ask them to bring food over during the game.  Well, one day the producer said they weren't sponsors, so he couldn't mention them on the air.  Like many broadcast teams, they used to announce birthdays on the air during the game.  Well, Rich wanted some pizza so he announced, "A special birthday wish today for the Celebres twins, Plain and Pepperoni."  Well, 20 minutes later, there were 6 boxes of pizzas delivered and everyone in the city had a good laugh.

Rich was an amazing man and my father-in-law.  When he passed away, in a hotel room in NYC (he admitted a fear of dying in a hotel room on the road) the whole city went into mourning.  His friend, Ed Rendell, then mayor of the city, arranged a closed casket viewing for the city in a beautiful old building left over from the Centennial.  His 93 year old mother stood in the receiving line all day.  For more than 8 hours thousands of people came by to pay their last respects.  He may have been a Hall of Famer with more hits than anyone in the golden era of baseball (1950s)  a two time batting champion and the man who Willie Mays called the greatest defensive outfielder he ever saw and a respected baseball writer, but he touched the city as a broadcaster.  The love the city had for him was always on display, the family constantly had to share him with everyone, even in mourning.  But the outpouring of affection soothed broken hearts and the family came to realize that sharing him was alright in the end. 

One elderly man knelt for a long time at the casket, slowly rose and left an old transistor radio by the coffin.  In the receiving line he said that radio was his connection to the game he loved and to a man he respected. 

John Mayhugh

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 08:27:58 AM »
I grew up listening to Jack Buck do St. Louis Cardinal games for KMOX.  One of my favorite childhood memories. 

It's great how baseball and golf both maintain their connections to the past and traditions through classic courses or stadiums.  Walking the same ground as Jones or Vardon brings a similar thrill as seeing a game in Fenway or Yankee Stadium.  Even when a ballpark is replaced, it's interesting to see how designers try to include a certain amount of quirk to evoke the great old parks of the past.

Though I've never been a Yankee fan, I'm making plans for a farewell visit before the stadium closes.  That's kind of a sad event, but the highlight will come from playing Yale and seeing how much it's improved since my last time there 7 or 8 years ago.

Also, great story Wayne.


Andy Scanlon

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #10 on: April 29, 2008, 08:39:37 AM »
I grew up listening to/watching Harry Kalas and Richie Ashburn, so to me that is the best announcing duo of all time.  It will be a very sad day for Philly and for baseball when Harry hangs 'em up.  I have always liked Vin Scully as well.
All architects will be a lot more comfortable when the powers that be in golf finally solve the ball problem. If the distance to be gotten with the ball continues to increase, it will be necessary to go to 7,500 and even 8000 yard courses.  
- William Flynn, golf architect, 1927

John Foley

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2008, 08:51:20 AM »
How cool that we've got Ed farmer connections - I'm sure he'd be a welcome addition here.

Forrest - I like Garagiola but Gowdy was better!

I'll also agree that Scully is world class, but the downside of listening to a Dodgers game is that Charley Stiener is un-listenable.

Wayne - great story!
Integrity in the moment of choice

wsmorrison

Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #12 on: April 29, 2008, 08:53:16 AM »
While I like Vin Scully's work, it always seemed to me that it wasn't spontaneous and from the heart.  It was scripted in a sort of Hollywood way, but then again, I've only heard him do national games and not local broadcasts, so maybe that has something to do with it. 

The homespun tales and charming living room banter between Whitey and Kalas was of the natural school and one I am very fond of. 

Broadcasters such as Mussberger, Michaels, Nantz and others seem so rehearsed and trite, they are of the engineered school.

John Mayhugh

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2008, 08:57:38 AM »
Broadcasters such as Mussberger, Michaels, Nantz and others seem so rehearsed and trite, they are of the engineered school.
The engineered school works WAY better in GCA than announcing.  I can't stand listening to those guys Wayne mentioned.

Bill Shamleffer

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #14 on: April 29, 2008, 09:00:55 AM »
I am a lifelong Cardinals fan and always thought there was no better on the radio than Jack Buck.  (This opinion is limited to post-1970.)

And having to suffer through the Scully years doing golf on NBC, I always thought he was overrated.

However, now that I have XM radio and have heard Scully do baseball on the radio, I now realize that Scully is just as great as was Buck.  What a treasure it is these days to sit down to the radio and listen the Scully bring a game to life over the radio.

I have to also add that Bob Uecker surprised me with how good he is on the radio.
“The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, but that's the way to bet.”  Damon Runyon

Steve_ Shaffer

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #15 on: April 29, 2008, 09:04:48 AM »
Wayne,

One of my earliest memories of listening to baseball on the radio was the day the Phillies clinched the NL pennant in 1950 by beating the Dodgers when Ashburn threw out Cal Abrams at home plate. I was 6 years old at the time.The late Gene Kelly was the Phillies announcer. What a voice.He later teamed with By Saam. Some great stories here:

www.broadcastpioneers.com/bysaambio.html

A good book is "Voices of Summer" by Curt Smith



"Some of us worship in churches, some in synagogues, some on golf courses ... "  Adlai Stevenson
Hyman Roth to Michael Corleone: "We're bigger than US Steel."
Ben Hogan “The most important shot in golf is the next one”

Dan Herrmann

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #16 on: April 29, 2008, 09:08:48 AM »
Wayne,
Vin Scully is really great on Dodgers local games.  Seeing how he does the games himself, I'm sure he has some notes or scripting prepared, but it's very enjoyable.  Only problem is that the games don't start till 10-10:30 ET

wsmorrison

Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #17 on: April 29, 2008, 09:10:07 AM »
Steve,

You should get the new DVD the Phillies put together on Rich.  It is narrated by Harry Kalas and includes incredible footage, some of it 16mm color film by Rich in his earliest days in the league.  Proceeds benefit Phillies' charities and the Richie Ashburn foundation, which provides baseball camps and equipment to inner city children.

Thanks for the link.

Dan,

Scully does the local games by himself?  That is amazing!  I'd like to listen to a local broadcast by him.  On the flip side, the Phillies have about 6 different announcers...no flow at all.  Then you have Chris Wheeler, who thinks he knows everything and isn't afraid to talk continuously trying to convince you until you can't stand it any more!
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 09:12:23 AM by Wayne Morrison »

John Foley

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #18 on: April 29, 2008, 09:17:56 AM »
Bill & Wayne - the neat thing about Scully is he does the game alone. No co-host just him. On the local broadcasts he's fanastic.

Glen Gefner used to do color for Red Sox and is now broadcasting the Marlin's games is another good up & commer. He started as a high schooler doing the Rochester Red Wings (AAA club) games into a tape recorder. Not sure how many guys knew at that age what they wanted to do , but he did.

I'll agree for the most part the national guys are too vanilla, however Jon Miller is very very good.
Integrity in the moment of choice

Patrick Hodgdon

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #19 on: April 29, 2008, 09:28:07 AM »
How cool that we've got Ed farmer connections - I'm sure he'd be a welcome addition here.

Forrest - I like Garagiola but Gowdy was better!

I'll also agree that Scully is world class, but the downside of listening to a Dodgers game is that Charley Stiener is un-listenable.

Wayne - great story!

I tried to tell him about it but he had driven down from Tampa to Naples on an hour of sleep so he was a little out of it.
Did you know World Woods has the best burger I've ever had in my entire life? I'm planning a trip back just for another one between rounds.

"I would love to be a woman golfer." -JC Jones

Phil McDade

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #20 on: April 29, 2008, 09:48:54 AM »
Here in Wisconsin, we thankfully still have Bob Uecker for radio broadcasts. He may be something of a caricature, thanks to re-runs of "Major League," but he's a very good baseball announcer. Like others cited here, he doesn't feel the need to fill up every second of the game with his voice.

Growing up in the Cleveland area, I had the good fortune of listening to many a game called by Herb Score, a pitching phenom for the Indians whose career was cut short far too early by a baseball hit back at him that struck him in the face. He never truly recovered as a pitcher, but was a wonderful radio broadcaster.

Moving to Minnesota in the late 1970s, I immediately took to Herb Carneal, still one of the best radio voices I've ever heard.  He died about a year ago; I'm not sure anyone connected with the Twins or baseball in Minnesota had anything but the highest praise for Herb.


Dan Kelly

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #21 on: April 29, 2008, 10:08:19 AM »
The Philadelphia Phillies were more often than not a sorry bunch of ballplayers, at least in my 45 years of watching and listening to them on the radio.  We've had some excellent broadcast teams with Harry Kalas, the Hall of Fame announcer, as the one remaining connection to the splendid past.  Now it seems that modern broadcasters need to talk all the time and treat every play like it is the equivalent of the D-Day landing, especially the basketball announcer in this town.

I grew up in an era when baseball games were only on TV once or twice a week.  It was the radio that connected us to the teams.  They were transistor radios that gave off a faint but pleasant odor of a sort of electrical way when warmed by the 9-volt battery inside.  We had Byron Saam, Bill "Soup" Campbell and one of the first ballplayers turned announcers, Richie Ashburn who joined the team after his retirement in 1962 as MVP of the worst team in major league history.  For the longest time he was the last man to retire having hit above .300 in his last season.  He wanted to retire while still on top having seen too many men hang on too long.  While he would surely have gotten his 3000th hit in the next 3-4 years, he decided to hang up the spikes (he was the fastest man in baseball in an era of Mays and Mantle) and go back to Nebraska to run for Congress.  If he stuck around long enough to get to that magic number, he wouldn't have had to wait another 32 years to get into the Hall of Fame, but he couldn't stand to lose a card game let alone a baseball game and the Mets were not going anywhere (at least not for another 7 years).  Well, it turns out a friend of his was running for Congress, so he decided to back off that plan and called up the TV producer for the Phils and asked him for a job.  He stumbled a bit for most of the first year but started to get the hang of it, being brought along by Saam and Campbell.  Being the most beloved athlete in Philadelphia history, and remaining so today, certainly helped.

Anyway, as a boy listening to those three and later after Saam retired and as a young adult when Kalas (a Chicagoan that worked in Houston) came on board, it was magic to listen to them no matter the score, which was usually a lopsided losing one.   Even the heartache of 1964 was a bit more bearable because of the broadcasters sharing the pain with us exactly as we were feeling it.

Harry and Rich became great friends and that comradery came through loud and clear.  One thing Bill Campbell told Rich when he first came on air was, if he didn't have anything to say, don't say anything.  So there'd be times when there was silence on the air.  When you dialed in the station (no pushbuttons) and heard nothing, you knew that in a bit, you'd hear something wonderful fromHarry's perfect voice or Rich's perfect timing or humorous comment.  You could hear Rich strike the match to light his pipe and the slow draw and exhale and it was calming, just like the pace of a ballgame.

People used to deliver food all the time to the announcer's booth and Rich loved pizza.  A wonderful pizza parlor, Celebres, is near the stadium and he used to ask them to bring food over during the game.  Well, one day the producer said they weren't sponsors, so he couldn't mention them on the air.  Like many broadcast teams, they used to announce birthdays on the air during the game.  Well, Rich wanted some pizza so he announced, "A special birthday wish today for the Celebres twins, Plain and Pepperoni."  Well, 20 minutes later, there were 6 boxes of pizzas delivered and everyone in the city had a good laugh.

Rich was an amazing man and my father-in-law.  When he passed away, in a hotel room in NYC (he admitted a fear of dying in a hotel room on the road) the whole city went into mourning.  His friend, Ed Rendell, then mayor of the city, arranged a closed casket viewing for the city in a beautiful old building left over from the Centennial.  His 93 year old mother stood in the receiving line all day.  For more than 8 hours thousands of people came by to pay their last respects.  He may have been a Hall of Famer with more hits than anyone in the golden era of baseball (1950s)  a two time batting champion and the man who Willie Mays called the greatest defensive outfielder he ever saw and a respected baseball writer, but he touched the city as a broadcaster.  The love the city had for him was always on display, the family constantly had to share him with everyone, even in mourning.  But the outpouring of affection soothed broken hearts and the family came to realize that sharing him was alright in the end. 

One elderly man knelt for a long time at the casket, slowly rose and left an old transistor radio by the coffin.  In the receiving line he said that radio was his connection to the game he loved and to a man he respected. 

Stuff like this is the reason I keep coming back to golfclubatlas -- after I keep getting driven away by the bickering about what strike me as teapot tempests.

Thanks, Wayne.
"There's no money in doing less." -- Joe Hancock, 11/25/2010
"Rankings are silly and subjective..." -- Tom Doak, 3/12/2016

Jason Topp

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #22 on: April 29, 2008, 10:11:31 AM »
While I like Vin Scully's work, it always seemed to me that it wasn't spontaneous and from the heart.  It was scripted in a sort of Hollywood way, but then again, I've only heard him do national games and not local broadcasts, so maybe that has something to do with it. 



My impression of Scully was always colored by his coverage of golf which was never quite right in my view.  

His Dodger play by play, however, is a masterpiece.  I was in LA with time to kill on the meaningless last day of the season last year and wound up not getting out of the car at Rustic Canyon and listened to the broadcast instead.  He so vividly painted the atmosphere of the last day of a disappointing season it was more interesting than either golf or going to the game would have been.

Drew Standley

Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #23 on: April 29, 2008, 10:20:20 AM »
Here in Houston we have to be tortured by Milo Hamilton's senile ramblings on the radio.  It's becoming a running joke that people are sending in "shout outs" to famous movie characters.  Some of the best have been Milo's hellos to 'Bud and Sissy Davis of Pasadena', 'Ron Burgundy and Co.', and 'Happy 22nd birthday to Veronica Corningstone'.

Is there some sort of unwritten rule that announcers can never retire?  Milo's Miguel Te-HAY-dah is killing me.

rjsimper

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Re: Sorta OT - Baseball Announcers
« Reply #24 on: April 29, 2008, 10:46:11 AM »
Scully does indeed do it by himself - as he's gotten older there's more and more dawdling in his storytelling, but its that stuff that always made him great.  Just a guy telling you what he sees, no color commentator, no useless booth banter, just a guy who really loves the game.

"Hello friends and a very pleasant good evening to you, wherever you may be...."

(and for this guy, whose "wherever" is no longer Los Angeles, I miss those games a lot)

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