[Joel_Stewart]

Seems like all over the country there are historic courses that are in dire need or have been renovated out of existance.

In Northern California there is Sharp Park a Mackenzie public course that could be a gem.

Is there a course near you that could be restored for the public good?

[Mark_Fine]

Joel,
Good post.  There was one similar a few weeks ago but it is worth discussing again though I think I will try to stay out of this one 
Mark

[TEPaul]

Joel:

It looks to me with the history Cobbs has going for it with the original architects, the city back then, public golf's push from some unlikely people both back then and today that Cobbs is pretty unique. Seems to me there're about five or six different and very varied angles to approach it from and perhaps bring altogether. In my opinion, it has about as much varied angles going for it as is imaginable. This FOCC that got the press in the Inquirer the other day is coming at this from definitely not a business angle and so if some entity is trying to just use FOCC or go around it for some business reason, personally I think that really sucks.

[David Stamm]

I would say the Wilson and Harding courses at Griffith Park would fit this. There are still some good "bones" there and have been told by reliable sources that it wouldn't be that hard at all to bring back Thomas' gems there to their former glory.

[Jason Topp]

I think Waveland in Des Moines, IA potentially fits.  

I would like to investigate the evolution of the course, which apparently opened in 1901 but had to have been altered by the 20's because the original layout was so short.  It was always rumored that Langford may have done some work there while he was working on Wakonda.

I know in the 50's a portion of the course was lost to a freeway.  It also looks to me that they rebuilt the greens around that time because they are just a series of giant ovals.  

Since I played there as a kid, they installed irrigation in the fairways and now have rough where some of the best fairway spots used to be.

I think the bones of a very good course exist.  I think, however, that the project would be pretty expensive because of all the green work that would be necessary.

http://www.golfwavelandgc.com/golf-course-information.cfm

[mike_malone]

 An important part of the Cobbs effort is the realization that a wonderful routing can be reclaimed without significant dollars spent, dirt moved, or play disrupted. This may be rather unique.

[Rich Goodale]

Just to expand this great thought outside of North America.

Within 15 miles of my house are two public courses that could be made great, with a little money and continuing TLC.

The first is Kinghorn, an Old Tom Morris design that was one of the better courses in Scotland 60+ years ago, but which was emasculated in WWII for an airfield and now tries to cram 18 holes into land on which 13 holes once stood.  The land for the NLE 5 holes is still there as a farm, and could be reclaimed, and the turf and contours of the current course could produce 13 really good links/raised beach holes.  Think Kingsbarns, with a far richer golfing history.

The second is Dunnikier which was built in the 1960's with encouragement from the R&A as a possible Open Qualifying course.  It is parkland, but has elasticity, fine contours and an above average design.  All that really lets it down is extremely mediocre maintenance and a complete lack of vision.  Properly tweaked and lovingly maintained, this could be one of the top-5 inland courses in Scotland.

However, try prying either of these courses out of the cold dying hands of the local county council..........

[Rich Goodale]

On the other hand, maybe I'll try to do something.  FBD, are you with me?

[Mark Bourgeois]

How disappointing, Rich, to see you drop the Foulpointe standard.

Joel, not just how many Cobbs there are but how many East Lakes, yes?

[Marty Bonnar]

On the other hand, maybe I'll try to do something.  FBD, are you with me?

Rich,
give it a year or two and you won't necessarily have to pry too hard...!

I hear Kinghorn is about to build a new clubhouse up where the starters is. They've sold off the old clubhouse for housing, I believe.

The course is such terrific fun. Maybe GCAers woud love it (if they could tear themselves away from the relentless course-bagging )

Re Cobb's Creek I would resectfully like to suggest Caird Park in Dundee as another in the same vein. This is the one which I believe to be 'The Lost Colt', but haven't YET had time to check.
 
cheers,
F.

[Mark Bourgeois]

How disappointing, Rich, to see you drop the Foulpointe standard.

Joel, not just how many Cobbs there are but how many East Lakes, yes?

[Brad Tufts]

George Wright of course here in Boston.

Franklin Park is actually looking pretty good these days, the city built a new clubhouse for it about 5 years ago, and they have the First Tee program there I believe.

[Mike Golden]

my guess, based on my limited experiences, is that there are hundreds of similar situations around the country.  Here are just a few from the courses I've played:
-North Fulton GC-terrific layout, needs some TLC, putting back some of the original bunkers removed, and some tree removal.  Design is credited to Bobby Jones and Chandler Egan so definitely a potential classic
-Rec Park (Long Beach)-our departed Emperor would kill to get his hands on this course for a month and restore the Billy Bell Sr features.
-La Tourette (Staten Island)-I haven't played there in 35 years but from memory this is an Dev Emmet course with some outstanding design features.

I've never played some of the other classic SoCal courses with Tillinghast pedigrees but they would certainly fit this mold as well.

I also haven't played Dyker Beach in Brooklyn in 40 years but from memory it has some great potential as well.

Possibly the greatest renovation of all time would be one that will never happen and doesn't fall into this list anyway-restoring Lake Merced GC to its MacKenzie roots and routing.  I've seen some of the old photos and it was an amazing golf course in its day before I-280 pushed the club to have Robert Muir Graves reroute the golf course almost completely when several holes could have been added with the original routing retained.  The modern course is an excellent test of golf, as tough as nails on a windy day, but has none of the charm and uniqueness of the original course.

[Phil_the_Author]

Mike,

Bob Crosby (chime in here Bob) is working with a group of business people who have been working toward restoring the municipal courses in Atlanta. The Cobb's Creek phenomenon ahould be of great encouragement to them.

[Mike Golden]

Mike,

Bob Crosby (chime in here Bob) is working with a group of business people who have been working toward restoring the municipal courses in Atlanta. The Cobb's Creek phenomenon ahould be of great encouragement to them.

Phil, I know, Bob has already threatened me with involvement (maybe I need to stop mentioning the golf course )

[Geoffrey_Walsh]

-La Tourette (Staten Island)-I haven't played there in 35 years but from memory this is an Dev Emmet course with some outstanding design features.

Mike,

After we bring back Cobb's, I am heading up to Staten Island.  I couldn't agree with you more on LaTourette and you don't hear much about it (I grew up in White Plains).  Both are about an hour from my house.

[brad_miller]

NYC area, Split Rock in the Bronx and Timber Point on Long Island might be candidates.

[BCrosby]

Mike,

Bob Crosby (chime in here Bob) is working with a group of business people who have been working toward restoring the municipal courses in Atlanta. The Cobb's Creek phenomenon ahould be of great encouragement to them.

Phil is right. A group of us is trying to improve public golf in Atlanta. Among our public courses, North Fulton (or Chastain to us locals) has a wonderful design pedigree. Our hope is to peal back its design history and restore some of its former glory.

Cobbs Creek has been an inspiration. I have been saving the threads.

Phil - We oughta do a radio show.

Bob

P.S. Mike - I know where you live. Be very careful.

[Joel_Stewart]

Joel, not just how many Cobbs there are but how many East Lakes, yes?

I'll quote from Mike Cirba that it's not trying to turn Cobbs Creek into a Country Club for a day.   He is exactly right about certain munis like Harding Park that really missed the mark spending millions and having to raise green fees over $100.

So maybe I should rephrase the question, How many classic public/munis are out there that would benefit from a $3 million dollar restoration.   

[Mark Bourgeois]

Joel

Sorry, didn't mean it that way! Your initial post reminded me of something Tom Cousins said about East Lake. He said there were a lot of East Lakes out there that could be used as sparks to revitalize inner cities.

Those comments have intrigued me for a long time....

Mark

PS Asheville Muni. A 1927 Ross whose sole design change has been the relocation of 10 tee. Michael Fay wrote that $500,000 would make it "one of the best municipal tracks in the United States."

[Michael Mimran]

My choice would have to be James Baird State Park (Robert Trent Jones Sr). 

Great bones and some really interesting holes.  Especially the 13th hole, one of the most difficult holes in the Hudson Valley.  Being a state park with a very small budget the course has no irrigation.  Regardless it's still a very enjoyable round of golf.  Could get some real recognition with a little work. 

Front nine par is 34.  I was up there last summer and they were beginning to do some work on the 4th hole.  A long uphill par four.  It looked like they were moving the green back about 30 yards, probably making it a par 5.  I hope they don't screw up what is a great test.

Par 3, 3rd hole

[Michael Mimran]

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