[PThomas]

watching the LPGA final round...18th hole/par 5 has an island green....but too risky to try and reach in two...so Annika had to layup with an 8iron 2nd and Creamer hit a wedge layup!...and they are not the only two forced to hit these kind of silly layups

[Jason McNamara]

Plus today's hole location was right up front, so if the ladies did go for it in two, there'd be almost no chance of a reasonable eagle putt, esp. given how firm those greens are.

[Dan Herrmann]

Paul - do you think it's poor architecture or poor setup?

[PThomas]

Paul - do you think it's poor architecture or poor setup?

Dan - on the one hand it was a poor setup...

but on the other I wonder if that green is made to accept anything other than a short iron at the most??i.e., even if the tees were up today and the ladies had mid irons for their second, would the hole have been too difficult?

and could the hole only play as a par 4 if it was a drive and pitch?

[Paul Carey]

The hole is awful.  Creamer laid up both days of the weekend with less that 190 to the hole.  The risk was not close to the reward.  Driver, wedge, edge=boring.

Awful.

[Jim Nugent]

What clubs would they hit for their 2nd shots, if they were going for the green? 

[Jon Wiggett]

Maybe they have planned the hole to stand the test of time. Think about it in 25 years it will be a 420 yard drive and a flick

[PThomas]

What clubs would they hit for their 2nd shots, if they were going for the green? 

not sure, i think they'd have about 185 for a yardage

[John Kavanaugh]

What clubs would they hit for their 2nd shots, if they were going for the green? 

not sure, i think they'd have about 185 for a yardage

If this is true we are not talking about a dumb hole as much as a dumb sport.  The ladies need more swing speed.

[JESII]

There will come a time when a woman makes that par 5 look like Tiger made #15 at ANGC look...will that be good or bad for women's golf.

[tlavin]

The interesting thing to me is that the presence of a truly dominating player on the men's tour has completely transformed the sport in every imaginable way while the presence of two dominators in a row (Sorenstam and now Ochoa) has left the women's game in the same position it has been for 20 years:  not terribly interesting, not terribly popular and not all that financially rewarding.  It is a shame that the game hasn't caught fire because there is no doubt that Sorenstam and Ochoa are spectacularly talented.

[Tim Gerrish]

It will be what it will be... we have no control over the game...   

John,  I'll assume you are not a senior.  From what I hear on the street golf is a dumb sport.  Now how can we change that?   

Anyway the hole plays differently depending upon the pin location.  Some days when the pin is back they can go for it.  Other days it is a three shot hole.  I'll guess if the design is good that there might be another par 5 that is reachable or tempting on those days when this hole is a 3 shot bore.   

[Ken Moum]

What clubs would they hit for their 2nd shots, if they were going for the green? 

not sure, i think they'd have about 185 for a yardage

Only the very best drives were getting that close. But then most of the field was laying up off the tee, as the fairway narrowed a lot at that point.

The greens were firm, and the island green doesn't appear to be that much bigger than the 17th at TPC Sawgrass. With water behind the green, it just didn't make sense to challnge the hole.

To give you an idea of what great hole it is, the commentators mentioned the 60-some-foot-tall waterfall there several times. Its apparently the higest waterfall in Florida, and one criteria was that it be taller than Steve Wynn's in Las Vegas.

Ken

[Garland Bayley]

What clubs would they hit for their 2nd shots, if they were going for the green? 

not sure, i think they'd have about 185 for a yardage

If this is true we are not talking about a dumb hole as much as a dumb sport.  The ladies need more swing speed.

If you haven't played the hole, then your analysis is meaningless.

Pat Mucci.
 

[Ken Moum]

What clubs would they hit for their 2nd shots, if they were going for the green? 

not sure, i think they'd have about 185 for a yardage

If this is true we are not talking about a dumb hole as much as a dumb sport.  The ladies need more swing speed.

If you haven't played the hole, then your analysis is meaningless.

Pat Mucci.
 

Even if I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night?

<G>

Ken

[Jim Nugent]

The interesting thing to me is that the presence of a truly dominating player on the men's tour has completely transformed the sport in every imaginable way while the presence of two dominators in a row (Sorenstam and now Ochoa) has left the women's game in the same position it has been for 20 years:  not terribly interesting, not terribly popular and not all that financially rewarding.  It is a shame that the game hasn't caught fire because there is no doubt that Sorenstam and Ochoa are spectacularly talented.

Last year 7 LPGA players earned over $1 million on the course.  Ochoa made $4.3 million.  The top players earn millions more each year in endorsements.  Other than tennis, does any other women's sport come close to that? 

Wie might have brought the wild popularity Tiger did.  But that's looking pretty remote these days. 

ETA:  from 185 would Creamer hit 6 iron?  Must be quite a penal hole if the green doesn't accept much more than wedge into it. 

[John Kavanaugh]

ETA:  from 185 would Creamer hit 6 iron?  Must be quite a penal hole if the green doesn't accept much more than wedge into it. 

No...George Pazin would hit 6 iron, Paula 4.

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