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Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Little Known MacKenzie...
« on: May 26, 2003, 12:29:52 PM »
Just wanted to kick off my GCA input with a wee note from Scotland.
I and three of my esteemed colleagues from the now (in)famous MSc golf course architecture programme at Heriot Watt Uni. (in Edinburgh) went to nearby Dunfermline over in Fife to play Pitreavie GC. on friday past.
This wee MacKenzie gem is tucked away in this corner of Scotland and does practically NO advertising or marketing based on the fact that it's one of the VERY few AM's in Scotland. (Have YOU heard of it???)
It's a relatively short track of a tad over 6000 yards, (which they've tried to extend - mostly unsuccessfully). Two loops of nine, some glorious wee par threes (very much in the Augusta vein - especially the twelfth, which with the addition of a couple of bunkers, some Azaleas (and maybe about twenty degrees of heat!!!) at the back could easily be mistaken for its illustrious cousin in the deep south!!!
Spoke with the young Pro who told me there's some drawings and other bits in the Carnegie Museum in Dunfermline (Andrew C. hailed from the town and the Trust still own the land the course is on) so I'll try and dig out a bit more of the history if I can - there's also supposed to be a book produced by a past captain with some more photos and stuff.
Amazingly, there's NO reference to AM in the Clubhouse at all!! When you think of what they could do with such an illustrious history, you could weep! Us Scots are so reticent about our claims to fame!!!
So the next time you jet over this side of the pond and make your way to St Andrews you could do a lot worse than take a very minor detour to Pitreavie and see some little changed AM work near the home of Golf!!!
PS As Students,we got to play it for £10 ($15)!!!!!!!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #1 on: May 26, 2003, 12:50:37 PM »
It's about time you started posting...

Brian
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #2 on: May 26, 2003, 01:28:30 PM »
FBD,
 Thanks for posting about this course. What did you like about it besides the par 3's? What do you think the best features of the course are?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

ForkaB

Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #3 on: May 26, 2003, 09:47:11 PM »
Good to hear more reports about Pitreavie.  I've played it 10 or so times, mostly in various competitions, and think it is a good course, but not particularly any better than others in the general area (Pittfairne and Canmore in Dunfermline, Aberdour, Burntisland, Balwearie and Dunnikier in Kirkcaldy).  Some people here do know it is a McKenzie, but that sort of attribution really doesn't mean much to most of the golfers in Fife.  They look at each course on its merits, and while Pitreavie does have some, so do most other local courses.

That being said, I will agree with fbd that the 3's are particularly good.  My favorite is #3 which is a solid 1-iron to a green hidden in a grove of trees just over a stream.  A couple of other things that are good about the course:

--the use of 2-3 streams in the routing, requiring some strategic thinking on many drives and second shots
--a number of driveable (or nearly so) par 4's, on each of which there is trouble if you try to bomb it and fail to execute the shot properly
--the opening hole, which is as hard a 1st as there is.  470 yards, with a drive to a canted fairway and a second over a stream and then uphill to a semi-blind, slick back to front green.  A bit Augustan.

Some bad news/good news for all you McKenzie-heads out there......

I was paired in a tournament a couple of weeks ago with a member of Pitreavie, and he told me that the course has had some financial difficulties, as well as some significant maintenance problems.  (fbd, et. al.--how did you find the greens when you played there?).  The good news--because of the financial problems you can get a membership at an authentic McKenzie course now with no waiting list, and no initiation fee for the princely sum of 280 quid a year (that's about $450).  Those of you with more money than sense might just want to gie the club a bell, as they say over here......
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #4 on: May 27, 2003, 01:16:45 AM »

Quote
FBD,
 Thanks for posting about this course. What did you like about it besides the par 3's? What do you think the best features of the course are?

Hey Ed,
See Rich's comments too...
The course has some amazing green complexes - bunkers set at the changes of elevation, great use of the natural contours, hardly a straight putt to be had...
The burns come into play on I think 12 of the holes but they are small streams, not great raging torrents - giving real subtle penal and strategic challenges.
Our collective comments on the day were: if they could spend 50k it could be a great course, 3 or 4 mill would maybe turn it into a world class track, but isn't that true of most places????
Re Rich's greens question: we thought they were in pretty good nick - they certainly tested our skills!!!
There were some wee patches of GUR esp on that #3 hole at the tees but apart from that it was looking quite nice.
There's maybe one too many blind drives as they've pulled the tees back over the ridges of some small hills for length, but that could easily be sorted with a little fill here and there.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

ForkaB

Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2003, 01:54:14 AM »
fbd

Come over to West Fife more often (and bring Phillips and Branigan with you too...).  You'll find that the greens at Pitreavie are fairly tame compared to other courses in the area.

Vis a vis putting some money into Pitreavie (or other nearby courses) I think your economics are a bit dodgy, but the concept is right--you could create some really world class venues here if someone found the way to finance a modest (in US standards) investment.  If you realy want a GCA project, think Kinghorn.  Once once of the finest courses in Scotland, devasted by WWII, greens even now that are as good as you will ever see (when the Council maintenance staff gets their act together...).   If someone were to ever restore that course, bringing the holes up in the hills and over to Kinghorn Loch back into play, and making 12 holes or so out of the 18 that are now shoehorned into an inadequate area......WOW!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

TEPaul

Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #6 on: May 27, 2003, 02:10:51 AM »
Fatbaldydrummer:

I love the way you write--with phrases like;

....."we thought they were in pretty good nick"...

Please keep posting on here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Brian Phillips

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #7 on: May 27, 2003, 04:59:56 AM »
Rich,

He lives in Fife and is a member of some course he hasn't taken us onto yet...

Brian
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
Bunkers, if they be good bunkers, and bunkers of strong character, refuse to be disregarded, and insist on asserting themselves; they do not mind being avoided, but they decline to be ignored - John Low Concerning Golf

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #8 on: May 27, 2003, 05:56:31 AM »
Rich/Brian
As a member at Balbirnie Park, I find anything more than about a 1 in 90 slope "interesting"! If you've ever gone east of the M90 you'll know what I mean!!!! Flat greens R Us!!

Quote
fbd

Come over to West Fife more often (and bring Phillips and Branigan with you too...).  You'll find that the greens at Pitreavie are fairly tame compared to other courses in the area.

Vis a vis putting some money into Pitreavie (or other nearby courses) I think your economics are a bit dodgy, but the concept is right--you could create some really world class venues here if someone found the way to finance a modest (in US standards) investment.  If you realy want a GCA project, think Kinghorn.  Once once of the finest courses in Scotland, devasted by WWII, greens even now that are as good as you will ever see (when the Council maintenance staff gets their act together...).   If someone were to ever restore that course, bringing the holes up in the hills and over to Kinghorn Loch back into play, and making 12 holes or so out of the 18 that are now shoehorned into an inadequate area......WOW!!!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

ForkaB

Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #9 on: May 27, 2003, 08:56:58 AM »
fbd

West Fife includes my little patch (Aberdour) which is actually east of the M90.  I know Balbirnie about as well as I know Pitreavie, and I agree with you that its greens aren't its biggest selling point.  I do think that the many of the greens at Aberdour, Burntisland, and Balwearie (for example) have interesting slopes and testing pin positions.  Not Augusta quality, maybe, but what else is?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #10 on: May 27, 2003, 12:33:20 PM »
Cheers TEP,
Glad to be along for the ride...
Isn't the coolest thing about the internet the ease of finding like-minded souls for enlightened and lively debate!?!?!
Who said golf was dull????

Quote
Fatbaldydrummer:

I love the way you write--with phrases like;

....."we thought they were in pretty good nick"...

Please keep posting on here.
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

Marty Bonnar

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2003, 12:48:19 PM »
Rich
One of these days I'll get my act together and manage to get round all of the county's courses. Be good to try it one Summer maybe..
What are we up to now? 40? 50? And one more at St Andrews in the pipeline...
My fave fife five: (if this isn't too inflammatory...)

1. Kingsbarns (by miles!!!)
2. Ladybank
3. The New
4. The Old
5. St Andrews Bay

Not too predictable I trust, but I'm sure open for some serious criticism - where's Brian Phillips when you need him....?

Quote
fbd

West Fife includes my little patch (Aberdour) which is actually east of the M90.  I know Balbirnie about as well as I know Pitreavie, and I agree with you that its greens aren't its biggest selling point.  I do think that the many of the greens at Aberdour, Burntisland, and Balwearie (for example) have interesting slopes and testing pin positions.  Not Augusta quality, maybe, but what else is?
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
The White River runs dark through the heart of the Town,
Washed the people coal-black from the hole in the ground.

ed_getka

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #12 on: May 27, 2003, 01:39:58 PM »
Rich and FBD,
 Thanks for the input. I have some more hidden gems to add to my list when I come across the pond. :)
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »
"Perimeter-weighted fairways", The best euphemism for containment mounding I've ever heard.

ForkaB

Re: Little Known MacKenzie...
« Reply #13 on: May 27, 2003, 02:25:33 PM »
fbd

I tend to agree with you that Kingsbarns is the best course in Fife.  After that, I'd put the Old, New and Eden at St. Andrews, along with Elie and Ladybank, in no particular order.

You do realise, however, that by dissing the Old Course, you are on double secret probation on the GCA website!
« Last Edit: December 31, 1969, 07:00:00 PM by 1056376800 »

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