[Sean_A]

Sean

The 9 & 18 hole courses came about as the ideal size of a course after many years of playing various lengths and holes. It was through history that these materialised, not just plucked out of the air.

Some of the early members of clubs complained about length and holes.
Due to lack of land, early courses had fairways crossing each other, some limited to 6 holes. This is not a new idea, it was around 150 years ago, it’s
just that some are now bring it in under the maintenance umbrella – it is old and out of date, IMHO it is not cost effective in the long run. 

The 9 & 18 came about after many years of trying various lengths. I for one am not advocating that we should go back to 6, 12 or 23.

I may be alone in this.

Melvyn

Who is advocating all courses changing?  I am talking about serving a percentage of the market that for whatever reason doesn't care about the numbers 9 & 18. 

I find it interesting that 18 was selected as ideal rather than the number just evolving to 18 by chance because it made sense at TOC.  Are you saying that if 17 made more sense they would have selected 18 because its ideal?  If so, where have you read this?

Ciao

[John Pflum]

Luana Hills near Honolulu has a hole like this.  I believe it is the 11th or 12th. 

<ah, I see someone beat me to it.> 

[Mark_Rowlinson]

There are a couple of 9-hole courses near me which actually have ten holes, both with totally separate 9th and 18th holes - Knutsford (charming parkland course designed by a couple of schoolmasters) in Cheshire and Ruthin-Pwllglas, a charmer in the Welsh hills a little to the west of Chester.

[Steve Kline]

If you were to have an extra hole to fill in during maintenance aren't you go going to have a really long walk between holes at some point? It's very impractical to me. I'd rather just play to temporary greens.

[Jason Topp]

If you were to have an extra hole to fill in during maintenance aren't you go going to have a really long walk between holes at some point? It's very impractical to me. I'd rather just play to temporary greens.

Not necessarily.  Kingston Heath involves a little backtracking but not much - I would guess less than 100 yards.  This link may show it.  The hole is in the top right of the course.  The first green is to the left of the hole and the 2nd tee is near the green.

To me - this hole is vastly superior to a temporary green.


http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Melbourne+VIC,+Australia&ie=UTF8&cd=1&geocode=0,-37.814251,144.963169&ll=-37.956304,145.090363&spn=0.0039,0.007253&t=k&z=17&iwloc=addr

[Andrew Bertram]

Jason

The 19th at the Heath fits very well into the round. It is about 80 metres from the 1st green to the temporary tee and then about 40 - 50 metres from the green to the 3rd tee.

In the sand belt Royal Melbourne, Victoria, Huntingdale and Yarra Yarra all have 19th holes.

At Yarra Yarra we use the hole whenever a hole is out of play having work done on it.

With current work place laws it is almost mandatory to have a hole out of play when there are staff working on the hole for extended periods.

It is also a cots benefit. When we remoddeled some bunkering on our 18th hole it took approx 1/2 the time it would of if the hole remained open. 

Club members prefer to play 19 rather than a temporary green and they are conditioned to it.
It is situated so that you walk 40 metres from the 16th to the 19th and play it (a 115m par 3) and then walk back behind the 16th green to the 17th tee. It is about 140 metres walk from 19th reen to 17th tee.

The 19th at Kingston Heath blends into the course very well and i believe they used it as part of the course layout for the Australian Women's Open in February.

Andrew
 

[John Moore II]

My new course has a 19th hole that we sometimes use if a group is playing slow and we have to skip them a hole. They are simply told to play the 19th hole Par 3 to finish the round.

[James Bennett]

Lakeside (Los Angeles) has #15 hole in two versions.  The first is the 100 yard classic that Behr designed.  Perpendicular to that is a 170 yard verion up a valley, more akin to a traditional par 3.

I don't know whether the two holes are used in a round (as a spare) or whether it is just a matter of either 15A or 15 B.

Kingston Heath 2A is a most impressive 'Clayton's Hole' - the hole you have when you don't have a hole! (remember that drink from the 80's - a Clayton's and Soda - the drink you have when your not having a drink).

I hope Andrew Summerall or the like post about NSW's 19th hole, which I understand plays from near #16 green towards #17 tee - apparently a grand 'pitch' par 3.

James B

[JESII]

But then the point at Kingston Heath is that if you're playing that hole you are skipping a hole...which does cause the awkward walk.

What is the 14th green to the 16th tee at KH? 1000 Yards?

[Mike_Clayton]

JES III

The 19th at KH only replaced the 15th when they were resurfacing the green - about 3 years ago, I think.

It replaces the 10th and the walk from 9 to 11 is very short.

The 14th green to the 16th tee is only the length of 15 (155) plus the walk down to the tee - maybe 100 yards.

[JESII]

Mike,

Joking about the 1000 yards...seeing which Aussie would take the bait first.

My ony time playing KH was December of 2005 and the 15th was out of commission in favor of the extra...nice hole.

[RJ_Daley]

Another famous course that has an extra hole, used as something of a fitter to connect a championship composite course is the original opening hole on the Meadow course, which plays up a hill to the green most often used as the Meadow 10th.  The original hole was used as the opening hole for the US Women's open, after having been somewhat retired for several years prior to the USWO. 

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