Stanford's Practice Facility

[Matt_Cohn]

I know there was a past thread but I couldn't locate it.

On Saturday I was able to walk around Stanford's new practice facility, officially opened last Thursday, and chat with the superintendent while watching the first day of the U.S. Intercollegiate tournament.

A few quick thoughts:

It's huge. It's 30 acres. The place is shaped like a V with about a 75 or 80 degree angle. One arm is 400x150 yards; the other arm is 400x100 yards. It is HUGE.

RTJ2 and his shapers did an unreal job of building greens in imitation of Tillinghast, Dye, Fazio, etc. (That's the concept for those unfamilar, btw). The imitations are incredible. They got them exactly right.

There is a full-time staff of 4 people just for the practice facility.

The greens are all close to the edges or corners of the property. I think this is a potential shortcoming. It means that most of the greens can be realistically approached from just a handful of different angles in a 90-120 degree spectrum. Also, this means that lost balls are a real possibility. A ball that misses the Mackenzie or Dye greens by 5-8 yards on the wrong side might well be lost in high grass. I understand that the greens-on-the-edges philosophy allows for multiple playable routings without compromising safety. However, I think it compromises some degree of variety as an everyday practice facility. Imagine the potential for one or two really well-thought-out greens right in the middle of the place, with 100+ yards of grass on all sides and 360 degree approachability!

Still, if it's not the best wedge and short game practice facility in the world, I'd like to see the one that is...

[Jason Tetterton]

Here is a link to the website. http://www.stanfordmensgolf.org/practicecenter_945.htm

[Tom Huckaby]

Matt - seems like a really cool place from what you and others have said.  I've only seen it from the outside - may need to rectify that once I get sprung from kids' sports jail.

In any case though... what does it matter if there are balls lost to the sides?  You're just hitting shots, not playing out the holes, aren't you?

And it never gets all that windy there, does it?  So approaching from all angles... well... whereas that would be ideal, isn't it better to have more greens than fewer that are approachable from all angles?

I think I'm missing something.

TH

[Pete_Pittock]

the link to the previous thread
http://golfclubatlas.com/forum/index.php/topic,33612.0.html

[Matt_Cohn]

Matt - seems like a really cool place from what you and others have said.  I've only seen it from the outside - may need to rectify that once I get sprung from kids' sports jail.

In any case though... what does it matter if there are balls lost to the sides?  You're just hitting shots, not playing out the holes, aren't you?

You can do either one - hit shots or construct holes or a "course". I'd just rather not worry about looking for balls, and potentially lose some nice new pellets, when I'm practicing. To me "practice facility" and "lost balls" don't really go together (even when the team provides them for free!)

And it never gets all that windy there, does it?  So approaching from all angles... well... whereas that would be ideal, isn't it better to have more greens than fewer that are approachable from all angles?

I'm not really thinking about the wind. To me it's about variety, given that these guys will be hitting shots to the same greens almost every day for 4 or 5 years. We had a practice facility at Oklahoma that was really poorly designed, where you ended up hitting the same handful of shots all the time. Obviously Stanford's facility is on a completely different level, but I'm still sensitive to the possibility of the players becoming accustomed to or bored by a finite number of possible shots, even if that finite number is relatively high.

I think I'm missing something.

TH

[Tom Huckaby]

Matt:

I thought the place was open ONLY to the teams - is that incorrect?

And if so, well... they certainly won't care about losing the free golf balls they are given, be it in hitting shot after shot toward a target OR playing a "course."  Hell in the end it might cause them to focus a bit more in the event they are playing a course, which to me is a good thing.  They'll find ways to create short game shots in other places besides the hay rough.

If it is played by regular members and visitors as a course or sorts, then you have a decent point... although I still don't see two central greens as a net positive over three at the edges.   Yes, variety is important... but remember in deleting a green you are giving up a lot of that.  And my assumption was that if they put greens in the middle they'd have to delete more at the edges. 

Looking at the website though.... it goes seem that they could put some in the middle without any deletions.  If they could do that and not effect the sightlines into the ones at the edges, then that would be cool...I'm just having a hard time picturing that.

TH

[Matt_Cohn]

You're right, teams only (plus major donors of course).

I agree that 5 at the edges beats 3 or 4 in the middle. But I'd take 3 at the edges and 2 in the middle over 5 at the edges. Yeah...math.   

[Tom Huckaby]

 

I love math.

I just don't see how they could do it without either (a) tearing up the whole thing and starting over; or (b) requiring one to hit OVER the central greens to get at the ones at the edges.  Neither is a happy prospect as I sit here about 5 miles away at a computer pondering things.

[Jason Topp]

A full time staff of 4 for a facility that serves 12-16 people?    

[Kevin_Reilly]

A full time staff of 4 for a facility that serves 12-16 people?   

Yes, seems a little light considering the usual standards for students there.  I'm sure they will revisit that when feedback comes in, and get the staffing more in line with what is needed....one staffer for every two students.

[Bill_McBride]

I love a little Cal Stanford badinage! 

My favorite memory of my one and only round at Stanford -- other than the succession of burly par 4s -- was the tee  block colors.

Red for the tips.  Cardinal red.  (Why no green for the tree?)

Blue / Gold for the forward tees.

(I still thought to myself, Go Bears!  )

[Phil_the_Author]

All of that and Michelle Wie still managed to sprain her wrist there by "accidentally" hitting a ball in the rough...

[Joel_Stewart]

Matt:


Did you take a look at the different types of grass planted.  I heard that some is bermuda and their is some fescue as well (and of course bent).  I think its going to be a tall order maintaining the different types of grass which may be why they have the extra staff???

[Matt_Cohn]

TH,

I'm not suggesting they tear it up. I'm just providing some off-the-cuff commentary, based on a little bit of relevant experience, of how I might have looked at it differently. You're right that they couldn't do anything now without tearing up a chunk of it, which I wouldn't advocate. I'd certainly be as happy as a clam to be able to practice there, and I might well find that my concerns were unfounded. You're also right that safety probably had a lot to do with it.

Joel,

I only saw the bermuda green which as you might expect for a new bermuda green, in Nor Cal, in April looked really bad. We had a bermuda green at Oklahoma and nobody ever used it.

Jason,

Yes. The super said, in a positive way, that the whole thing is a bit of a fairy tale!

[Emmy]

Last Friday I toured Stanford's new golf training complex. I must say, I've never seen anything like it. It's quite impressive with its various green complexes and accompanying bunkers.

Now, (while at home) Stanford team players can experience various course conditions similar to those found (while out on the road) during competitive play. They have appropriately tagged the project, the Road Game Greens.
 
I like the fact, the facility can break into 2 sub-complexes, ideal for simultaneous practice sessions for both men's and women's golf teams.

Next week Course Superintendent Ken Williams, CGCS, will host an on-site field day, an educational workshop for fellow superintendents. I suspect the GCSANC members will be instantly intrigued by the complex (just as I was), with plenty of questions about design, construction and maintenance practices.
 
Hats off to Stanford University and the entire RTJ II design team, shaper, contractor, irrigation consultant, superintendent and staff, pros, coaches, and donors too, for creating such a novel practice center/golf training complex. This project is collaboration at its best.


 

[ed_getka]

Mark Chalfant and I toured the facility last month after being filled in by Ken about what the project hoped to achieve. The various style of greens seems like an interesting idea. I don't know about the Bermuda green though. Hopefully they can maintain it properly to make it useful.
   Matt brings up an interesting point about the position of the greens. Mostly that will affect the greens at the upper tips of the V-shape facility. The other greens will offer quite a wide variety of shots. Inside of the V is a garden club plot so it will interesting to see how long it takes the kids to start launching blind shots up and over the garden.
    One really cool thing is that there are some trees out on the "course" that will allow the kids to work on taking shots over, under, and around the trees which should be a useful feature I would think.
    It is an excellent practice facility, but I would choose the Bandon Dunes complex as the ideal.

[Steve Strasheim]

Cool video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S3mubLW97GY&feature=player_embedded

Must be the greatest practice facility ever built?

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Steve I think there is another discussion on here. Jay Blasi and the fine folks at Jones Jr designed as fine a practice facility as there is in America if not the world. I have been fortunate to spend many hours there. Sadly my game is not showing the positive improvement one would think would come from practicing in rare air. It is one of the great plusses for those of us one here to see when the game makes significant improvements. Practice areas are one of those places where the game has moved forward over the last decade.

[Aidan Bradley]

[Steve Strasheim]

Aidan,

Thanks for posting those spectacular pics.

Tiger,

In the spirit of a good mental game, let me congratulate you on your hard work and enjoyment of a world class facility.

"Steve I think there is another discussion on here. Jay Blasi and the fine folks at Jones Jr designed as fine a practice facility as there is in America if not the world. I have been fortunate to spend many hours there. Sadly my game is not showing the positive improvement one would think would come from practicing in rare air. It is one of the great plusses for those of us one here to see when the game makes significant improvements. Practice areas are one of those places where the game has moved forward over the last decade. "

[Brad Tufts]

I thought this was interesting because of the architect imitating two other living architects.  I can't think of where that has happened recently, if you take away familial connection between architects like PB and Pete Dye.

Also, the "Ross green" emulating Pinehurst #2 with the inverted saucer design.  I don't think this style is really "Ross" so much as "Pinehurst #2."  Yes, Ross designed #2, but the green isn't representative of his greens all over the eastern US...

Looks awesome though, great concept.

[Mike Benham]

The first time I looked at the aerial, I was surprised by the size of the facility:

[Tiger_Bernhardt]

Thanks for posting that Mike

[Kevin_Reilly]

Usage of the facility will likely decline even further than noted above, as Stanford golf team members along with the school's other athletes no longer have the benefit of an institutional-approved list of Underwater Basket Weaving-type courses.  The coddled Stanford student/athletes (sort of like saying the "good looking Victoria's Secret models") will undoubtedly need to spend more time in the library than the short game facility in order to keep their grades up now that this support mechanism has been eliminated.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/news/story?id=6197050

Before I hit "post", I must say that in that Youtube video, the railroad tie "Dye" bunker was absolutely over the top ridiculous.

[Mike Benham]

Looks like Stanford's All-World Practice, which is defined as "temporary" by the University is going to be all but gone.


"Stanford Trustees give site OKs for SLAC science and user support building and campus energy center - Buildings are part of $438 million Stanford Energy System Innovations project."

Reducing Stanford's carbon footprint

Trustees gave site approval for a $169 million Central Energy Facility on the west side of the central campus at the corner of Oak and Searsville roads, on a site currently occupied by the temporary golf practice facility. They also gave site approval for a $54 million electrical substation next to the center.

http://news.stanford.edu/news/2012/february/trustees-february-meeting-021512.html