[Bryan Drennon]

1:30pm Monday 4/21

[Jed Peters]

My god is this course good.

I'm watching it....just unreal. Looks like SOOOOO much fun.

[Bryan Drennon]

The course is awesome, but the golf looked pretty rough (especially for 2 great players). I don't think I've seen so many balls topped and bladed since the last time I played.

By the way, it replays tomorrow at 7pm if any of you wants to DVR it (like I'm going to).

[Mark Smolens]

Thank you Bryan, that's a post I can use.  It doesn't do me much good here at the office to find out it's on right now.  I will set the dvr.

[Jason McNamara]

And in less than an hour (6pm Eastern) they will show Nelson - De Wit from Haagsche.

Also, at 9 AM Weds they'll have Player & Palmer vs. Nelson and Venturi from Pebble Beach.

[David Stamm]

It's too bad they don't ever show the Hogan and Snead match in Houston. I finally bought it last year and it's great. Don't blink or you'll miss Hogan's swing! The old SWWOG series is great and they feature some great venues. I have my DVR set to record any of the matches when they come up and then check them out at my leasure.

[Dan Herrmann]

The one I've been looking for was the Highlands Links match.  I've only seen it once - a long time ago.

[Wade Whitehead]

The Pine Valley match features some nasty shots, but nothing close to the Johnny Miller Olympic debacle.

WW

[BVince]

Who was playing?  Comcast only describes it by players...

[Wade Whitehead]

Who was playing?  Comcast only describes it by players...

I assume it's the Littler-Nelson match.  That remains the only time, I believe, the course has been shown on national television.

WW

[Kevin_Reilly]

The Pine Valley match features some nasty shots, but nothing close to the Johnny Miller Olympic debacle.

WW

Apologies for the threadjack, but I got a kick out of Miller's delusional assessment of his play that day in his book "I Call the Shots"...

From tee to green I outplayed Jack, but on the greens it was like I was holding a snake in my hands.

I think he out-drove Jack a few times, and might have hit a closer approach shot here or there, but to anyone who was there in the flesh (I think Tom H was there), there is no way that anyone would even come close to saying that Johnny "outplayed" Jack in any aspect of the game.  Jack was a machine that day.

[Chuck Brown]

Apologies for the threadjack, but I got a kick out of Miller's delusional assessment of his play that day in his book "I Call the Shots"...

From tee to green I outplayed Jack, but on the greens it was like I was holding a snake in my hands.

I think he out-drove Jack a few times, and might have hit a closer approach shot here or there, but to anyone who was there in the flesh (I think Tom H was there), there is no way that anyone would even come close to saying that Johnny "outplayed" Jack in any aspect of the game.  Jack was a machine that day.

Thanks for the Pine Valley Alert!
And as for Miller, I am astonished that he ever admitted to being the guy who played with Nickalus that day in the WWoG.  It was the worst 18-hole embarassment I've ever seen, including Greg Norman with Faldo at Augusta, and Van de Velde at Carnoustie.  What did Miller shoot that day?  81?  On his "home" course?  A "debacle" is indeed what it was.  I thought that perhaps Miller was on some medication that day.  Nicklaus was in ecstasy; by the end of the round it was like Jack was giving Johnny a playing lesson...

[Chuck Brown]

(duplicate posting)

[Garland Bayley]

Thanks for the heads up. I was able to catch this in the workout room at work today.

[BCrosby]

Nelson was about 50 years old at the time. He had been out of competitive golf for more than 15 years. He routinely drove it past LIttler, the reigning US Open champion. Nelson seemed to hit almost every green. If he had putted only decently Nelson could have posted something in the 60's.

Note the clubs hit on approaches. They were hitting 3i or 4i's to the 16th. From the original elevated tee on 18, they were also hitting 3i or 4i's.

Great stuff.

Bob

[Patrick_Mucci_Jr]

Where can one purchase this match and others on a DVD ?

Pine Valley is such a great golf course and Nelson and Littler were amongst the best golfers the world had ever seen, but, 14 year old kids are outhitting them by a mile, and the relevance of architectural features has been greatly diminished by the inroads of hi-tech.

Steve Shaffer,

I've been playing at two golf courses that are in excess of 7,200 yards, they're now considering lengthening the course to around 7,400.

As to handicaps remaining the same, that proves my point, hi-tech has been able to overcome Mother Nature and the aging process.  Handicaps should go up as golfers lose their hand-eye co-ordination, get out of shape, play less, and get older.  Yet, according to you, they're not.

I remember when 6,800 was a long course.
I'd have no issue with playing my clubs, circa 1960, on a 6,800 yard course.

With today's equipment and ball, If I could putt better than Ray Charles, I'd be a plus 2 handicap today, and I'm on Medicare, and, I play the back tees whenever I can.

High tech has diminished the significance of the architecture.

A great case in point is GCGC, where certain features, like the cross bunkers on # 11 have become largely irrelevant to young players and mid to low handicap players.

There's a strategical genius to those stepped bunkers that I and others totally disregard unless there's a strong, heavy wind in our face.

While it's possible to pick up a few yards in tee length, it's not very practical due to the configuration of the 7th, 10th and 11th holes, but, additional yardage would bring those bunkers, thinking and strategy BACK.

Then again, so would an ANGC "Tournament ball"

I'd welcome its introduction.   

[Andy Hughes]

Patrick, it seems a pity that you and those you play with have intentionally chosen to use clubs and balls that allow you to 'disregard' the 'strategical genius' of the course.

I can understand doing so in a tournament, but it has never made sense to me that you
a. play on some of the wonderful old courses
b. intentionally use equipment that allows to avoid and blow past and disregard the very features and attributes that make these same old courses wonderful.
We all have our reasons for playing with what we do, and I am sure your reasons are valid as well, but it has never made sense to me when your respect and enthusiasm for these same architectural features is so clear in your writing.

[BCrosby]

The thread on 19th holes reminded me of something I saw in the Neslon/Pine Valley tape last night.

There was no alternate green on 8. When was the alt. 8th built? The alternate green on the 9th was clearly visible. Why did it predate the alt. green at 8? Were there different reasons for building each?

Also, the front of the 10th had a dramatic false front that I recall being much less severe now. Is my memory wrong about the current 10th hole

Bob

[Sean Leary]

Patrick, it seems a pity that you and those you play with have intentionally chosen to use clubs and balls that allow you to 'disregard' the 'strategical genius' of the course.

I can understand doing so in a tournament, but it has never made sense to me that you
a. play on some of the wonderful old courses
b. intentionally use equipment that allows to avoid and blow past and disregard the very features and attributes that make these same old courses wonderful.
We all have our reasons for playing with what we do, and I am sure your reasons are valid as well, but it has never made sense to me when your respect and enthusiasm for these same architectural features is so clear in your writing.

Because I'm sure Pat plays for the competition as much as the architecture (if not more, esp. considering his playing resume), even in casual rounds. Unless you can get all of your competitors to join you in using older stuff, it doesn't work..

[Andy Hughes]

Sean, I hear ya, and I am sympathetic to the tournament issue. But I still have issues because
~I will assume that  Patrick has had opportunities within the past year to play with older equipment, and hasn't. He has certainly written of rounds played with fellow GCA-ers--those would be perfect chances. Did he? I have no idea, but I figure not.  I'll believe him if he says otherwise.
~We have all heard lots about his matches with Ran, and Ran's hickories. What did Patrick play with?
~I assume Patrick plays with some regular groups at some of these fine old courses. If the game is so much more enjoyable with the older equipment that allows one to interface with the architecture, surely he could talk his compatriots into doing so now and then? Does he?
~How valuable can the architecture really be to someone who values their nassau higher?

PS All of this is fine, but the reality is I have no idea what Patrick plays with and he might say he plays hickory every other round and what the heck do I know? 

[Doug Ralston]

Actually, not that much of Pine Valley is shown on the tape. And it is funny to listen to the announcer claim the greens are 'very fast', then watch the putts stop like they have brakes slammed on.

What one can see of the course looks good. Isn't it time PV was claimed by the President as a 'National Treasure', and made publically available?

Doug

[George Pazin]

Where can one purchase this match and others on a DVD ?

You can find many of them on Amazon.

General search results

Nelson v Littler

Hogan v Snead

[Stan Dodd]

Does anyone know the program like Shell that featured matches played in the desert in particular Hesperia and Apple Valley Country Clubs. Isaw a glimplse of one with Arnie, Snead, Player and George Bayer I think and I was wondering if I could buy those some place.

[Mike Lacey]

And it is funny to listen to the announcer claim the greens are 'very fast', then watch the putts stop like they have brakes slammed on.

An additional thing that Gene Sarazan said regarding how long Pine Valley was playing also stuck me funny, "That Bermuda Grass sure grabs the ball."

I grew up 4 miles from the guard gate at PV and mowed many a lawn.  There is some poorly chosen zoyzia in the area, but I am not aware of Bermuda being used anywhere in the region.  Does, or did, Pine Valley have Bermuda fairways?

[Allan Long]

Does anyone know the program like Shell that featured matches played in the desert in particular Hesperia and Apple Valley Country Clubs. Isaw a glimplse of one with Arnie, Snead, Player and George Bayer I think and I was wondering if I could buy those some place.

Those are part of the Challenge Golf series with Palmer/Player vs. other 2-man teams.

[Tags:]

Tags:

[Tags:]

Tags:

Call to undefined function theme_linktree()