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Michael Whitaker

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"I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« on: April 01, 2008, 01:54:25 PM »
"I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."

Is this the ultimate compliment one can give a golf course?

"Solving the paradox of proportionality is the heart of golf architecture."  - Tom Doak (11/20/05)

paul cowley

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2008, 02:03:08 PM »

 :)
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 02:30:04 PM by paul cowley »
paul cowley...golf course architect/asgca

Joe Hancock

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #2 on: April 01, 2008, 02:12:01 PM »
Thinking about this in a marriage/ relationship analogy, do you think this statement is even possible or true?

I love golf, but I wouldn't have the guts to say this kind of thing, at least not in a literal sense.

Joe
" What the hell is the point of architecture and excellence in design if a "clever" set up trumps it all?" Peter Pallotta, June 21, 2016

"People aren't picking a side of the fairway off a tee because of a randomly internally contoured green ."  jeffwarne, February 24, 2017

tlavin

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #3 on: April 01, 2008, 02:15:26 PM »
Thinking about this in a marriage/ relationship analogy, do you think this statement is even possible or true?

I love golf, but I wouldn't have the guts to say this kind of thing, at least not in a literal sense.

Joe

Some might argue that it's easier said about a golf course than a mate.

Lester George

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #4 on: April 01, 2008, 02:17:56 PM »
It certainly is one of the best compliments one can give in my opinion. 

Robert Wrenn said that of Cavalier Golf & Yacht after I finished it and I was flattered.  Coming from a past PGA Tour winner, and at only 6,150 yards, I was blown away by that as a compliment (which credit goes to Charles Banks).

Lester

cary lichtenstein

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #5 on: April 01, 2008, 02:20:04 PM »
Thinking about this in a marriage/ relationship analogy, do you think this statement is even possible or true?

I love golf, but I wouldn't have the guts to say this kind of thing, at least not in a literal sense.

Joe

Some might argue that it's easier said about a golf course than a mate.

Doesn't that depend on the what is par for that course?
Live Jupiter, Fl, was  4 handicap, played top 100 US, top 75 World. Great memories, no longer play, 4 back surgeries. I don't miss a lot of things about golf, life is simpler with out it. I miss my 60 degree wedge shots, don't miss nasty weather, icing, back spasms. Last course I played was Augusta

Mark Bourgeois

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #6 on: April 01, 2008, 02:23:16 PM »
As far as the compliment goes, and perhaps apropos of relationships too, how much is down to the dance -- and how much down to the dancer?

Mark Bourgeois

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #7 on: April 01, 2008, 02:27:39 PM »
Thinking about this in a marriage/ relationship analogy, do you think this statement is even possible or true?

I love golf, but I wouldn't have the guts to say this kind of thing, at least not in a literal sense.

Joe

Some might argue that it's easier said about a golf course than a mate.

Terry, not only is it harder to take double out of play on the latter than on the former, the latter seems to rack up a lot more Xs.  Or is that "ex's"?

JESII

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #8 on: April 01, 2008, 02:40:51 PM »
It certainly is one of the best compliments one can give in my opinion. 

Robert Wrenn said that of Cavalier Golf & Yacht after I finished it and I was flattered.  Coming from a past PGA Tour winner, and at only 6,150 yards, I was blown away by that as a compliment (which credit goes to Charles Banks).

Lester


Lester,

Would yuo agree that of all the courses that garner this type of compliment the vast majority would be on the short side?

If so, what does that say about the 7500 yard course?

Lou_Duran

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #9 on: April 01, 2008, 03:22:01 PM »
Mike,

I suspect that it all depends on what you are used to.  People tend to become acclimated to what they have and then human nature takes over.  If one is a negative, unhappy, fault-finding person, after playing Cypress Point regularly, it would become routine, imperfect, and the source of all types of annoyances.  I once played with a guy whose father is a member of a half dozen or more of the northeast's finest clubs.  He grew up playing all of them and the way he talked about them is the same way some of my friends talk about the munis they were accustomed to.  The bottom line, we tend to value highly, maybe even envy, those things which are just outside our reach.  It is no coincidence, I think, that some of the most revered courses are also among the most exclusive. 

Talking about the ultimate compliment, I think that this is best embodied in the sentiments expressed by a CP member and memorialized on a small sign on the 15th tee (I think) reminding his brethren to be thankful for the opportunity to experience such a wonderful place.  BTW, even after playing several hundred rounds at Ohio State's Scarlet, I think I can say "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it." and mostly mean it (before the course's renovation, which I haven't played).   

   

tlavin

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #10 on: April 01, 2008, 03:29:29 PM »
Thinking about this in a marriage/ relationship analogy, do you think this statement is even possible or true?

I love golf, but I wouldn't have the guts to say this kind of thing, at least not in a literal sense.

Joe

Some might argue that it's easier said about a golf course than a mate.

Terry, not only is it harder to take double out of play on the latter than on the former, the latter seems to rack up a lot more Xs.  Or is that "ex's"?

Mark,

I only recently (last week) acquired my first ex.  Trust me, she racked up plenty of x's...

Tommy Williamsen

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #11 on: April 01, 2008, 03:36:09 PM »
I have said this about a few courses.
Cypress Point is one.  I can't imagine growing tired of it.  It has it all forest holes, dunes holes, and ocean holes.

I feel the same way about Musgrove Mill GC.  I just spent a week there and couldn't wait for the sun to come up so I could play.

I have only played St. Enodoc once but thought the same thing about it.
Ballybunion is another.
Where there is no love, put love; there you will find love.
St. John of the Cross

"Deep within your soul-space is a magnificent cathedral where you are sweet beyond telling." Rumi

tlavin

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #12 on: April 01, 2008, 03:40:22 PM »
I have said this about a few courses.
Cypress Point is one.  I can't imagine growing tired of it.  It has it all forest holes, dunes holes, and ocean holes.

I feel the same way about Musgrove Mill GC.  I just spent a week there and couldn't wait for the sun to come up so I could play.

I have only played St. Enodoc once but thought the same thing about it.
Ballybunion is another.

There are plenty of golf courses that I could say this about, but I'm not nearly uxorious enough a person to say the same about a wife.

wsmorrison

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2008, 03:42:04 PM »
Merion West is like that.  You can see 9 year olds and 99 year olds on it on a given day.  I think Jim Sullivan is right that the courses on the short side fill the bill best, if we are being literal.

Lester George

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2008, 03:52:00 PM »
JES,

I would tend to agree but then I have also heard that same type of statement about Kinloch.

I think it has something to do with intimacy and conciseness of the routing.  You know, how the place makes you "feel".  That may fingerprint the shortness thing for people.

Lester

Phil_the_Author

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2008, 03:54:42 PM »
And as Wayne is sitting there and laughing at me, he knows that my passion for Bethpage Black has made me insane enought to want to play it any chance I get...  ;D

Mark Bourgeois

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2008, 03:57:38 PM »
Terry

And after the XXXs come the 000s. (Sorry for the joke at your expense...)

Mark

JESII

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2008, 03:58:50 PM »
JES,

I would tend to agree but then I have also heard that same type of statement about Kinloch.

I think it has something to do with intimacy and conciseness of the routing.  You know, how the place makes you "feel".  That may fingerprint the shortness thing for people.

Lester


Don't know Kinloch, but the point about "intimacy" and "conciseness" seems to make sense...and it does follow that it would be tough to do that on a five tee course with 7500 max and 5100 minimum yardage.

BVince

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2008, 04:51:52 PM »
Talking about the ultimate compliment, I think that this is best embodied in the sentiments expressed by a CP member and memorialized on a small sign on the 15th tee (I think) reminding his brethren to be thankful for the opportunity to experience such a wonderful place. 

   

Lou, I think the plaque you described is right off the 17th tee.  I am glad you mentioned it as it is placed at a wonderful time in the round and one that stirred my emotions.


It reads, "Gentlemen, lets us pause for a moment of thanks for being one of the few who have been so privilaged to walk among these magnificent shores."
« Last Edit: April 01, 2008, 04:57:51 PM by Bryon Vincent »
If profanity had an influence on the flight of the ball, the game of golf would be played far better than it is. - Horace Hutchinson

RJ_Daley

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2008, 05:04:59 PM »
It would be interesting for owners, developers and clubs to know what specific feature components of a golf course, including its' design characteristics and features, would cause a person to declare that they could play it all the time for the rest of their lives. 

firm and fast maintenance approach
undulating and interesting contour greens
mowing methods of surrounds and rough
length and walkability
fairway features, characteristics and hazard placements
number of doglegs left and right and holes played straight away
width charateristics
club house features
f&b variety and style
and type of regular users

I'd think a person would have to have a definite preference for multiple of those specific issues, and no two courses would have the same % or mix of negative and positive ratings in all those categories.  Yet, some combination and perhaps many shared characteristics generally would give designers, developers, managers of golf facilities, and private club committees a basic overview of what it takes to have someone declare the course is one they'd be content to play constantly for the rest of their lives.  I would think that providing many of the things folks rate consistently would help guide the industry and how to market product. 

If you as me, there are a lot of course managers, developers and designers that aren't really doing that sort of survey enough, or I doubt we'd have so many courses that folks hit and run.
No actual golf rounds were ruined or delayed, nor golf rules broken, in the taking of any photographs that may be displayed by the above forum user.

wsmorrison

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2008, 05:19:58 PM »
Phil,

Honestly, Bethpage Black is not a course you can play every day when you are a young lad or when your an old fart.  So in my book, that cannot be an everyday place for a lifetime...just an interim phase.   You gotta be past that by now, right ;)  ;D

Kyle Harris

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2008, 05:23:56 PM »
Phil,

Honestly, Bethpage Black is not a course you can play every day when you are a young lad or when your an old fart.  So in my book, that cannot be an everyday place for a lifetime...just an interim phase.   You gotta be past that by now, right ;)  ;D

I could play golf exclusively at the Bethpage complex for an entire lifetime.

Sean_A

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #22 on: April 01, 2008, 05:25:05 PM »
Thinking about this in a marriage/ relationship analogy, do you think this statement is even possible or true?

I love golf, but I wouldn't have the guts to say this kind of thing, at least not in a literal sense.

Joe

Crazy Joe is right.  No such beast exists that could tempt me to play every day.  I would think a course is doing very well if I tee it up every other day and I am not sure this course exists either.

Ciao
New plays planned for 2024:Winterfield, Alnmouth, Camden, Palmetto Bluff Crossroads Course, Colleton River Dye Course  & Old Barnwell

tlavin

Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #23 on: April 01, 2008, 05:28:35 PM »
Phil,

Honestly, Bethpage Black is not a course you can play every day when you are a young lad or when your an old fart.  So in my book, that cannot be an everyday place for a lifetime...just an interim phase.   You gotta be past that by now, right ;)  ;D

I could play golf exclusively at the Bethpage complex for an entire lifetime.

I've never been to Bethpage, but if we want to talk resorts, I think I could play the Pinehurst courses exclusively for a lifetime.  There is a good variety of challenges among the many courses there and the vibe is absolutely perfect.  Throw in the weather and the Southern hospitality and you've got it all.

Lou_Duran

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Re: "I could play it every day and never grow tired of it."
« Reply #24 on: April 01, 2008, 08:32:16 PM »
"If you as me, there are a lot of course managers, developers and designers that aren't really doing that sort of survey enough, or I doubt we'd have so many courses that folks hit and run."  RJ Daley

I think that you may be surprised and quite likely nauseated by the responses such a survey might elicit.  At my former home club, a "progressive" GM did that in terms of updates and changes to the club, and the #1 response by a large margin was, roll the drums please, remove all the parts of the continuous cartpaths that were still asphalt and replace them with concrete.  #2 was a new cart fleet.  Among the ladies, #1 was an expansion and new decor of their locker room to be more commesurate with the men's (eventhough they had empty lockers in the existing facility, new carpet and furnishings, and the women members were but a small fraction of the membership, particularly in terms of rounds played). #2 for the ladies was spurs to their tees so that the distances from the cartpaths to the tee surfaces were the same as for the men's tees.

The course sorely needed a new irrigation system (the course, particularly the entries to the greens, was always soft and mushy because in order to get enough water to certain parts, they had to overwater other sections), some improvements to the practice facility, and a new bridge across a major creek which had washed out in a flood years before.  All these items would have improved the quality of the golf experience, yet none made it as a priority.

I am afraid that what most golfers really want and what the treehouse advocates are more often than not two very different things.  We can complain that they are stupid, irrational, etc., but who would you have the owners and managers listen to?  Guys in their pajamas sometimes posting very eloquently, or their customers who plump down the cash which allows them to make their payroll and keep the doors open.  Not a real hard choice, I think.


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