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Ian Larson

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Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« on: April 01, 2008, 11:29:05 PM »
After college I worked at Ridgewood Country Club and became very interested in Tillinghast. I joined the Tillinghast Society and traveled around playing Tillinghast courses. After Ridgewood I was an Assistant Superintendent at a Nicklaus course in Shawnee on Delaware in Pennsylvania. Luckily right down the road was Shawnee Country Club which I played often.

Up the river from Shawnee on another island was the site of Tillinghasts' Poxono Golf Club. There is a little clip about it in one of the Tillinghast books. It was never finished and I never got a real good reason why. I would often kayak down the river to the site looking for any remnants of it.

Does anybody know what happened to Poxono Golf Club?

Craig_Rokke

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2008, 11:42:12 PM »
Trebus and Wolffe and others did find the remnants of at least one green site. If memory serves, it may have been one they had an AWT sketch of. I believe it was on an island or peninsula in the river.

Phil_the_Author

Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2008, 12:04:52 AM »
Ian & Craig,

Yes, Poxono was built but, unfortunately, the Great Depression got in the way.

In the November, 1926, issue of Golf Illustrated, Tilly, at the request of the magazine's editor, wrote an article titled, "New Types at Poxono." He begins it by stating, "I will illustrate briefly several of the unique holes NOW UNDER CONSTRUCTION..." (capitals mine).

The article leaves little doubt that the entire course had been designed, routed and laid out and was, at that point, quite close to being finished. It was a club for Tilly & "his friends"; although an advertisement in this same issue mentions that membership would be limited to 300 persons. Among these were the most influential men of the time from business, industry and golf.

There is an article about this expedition and what was discovered and found on the Tillinghast Association website (www.tillinghast.net). We are planning an article with an update and more information in an issue of Tillinghast Illustrated later this year, otherwise I would say more...  ;D

Mike_Cirba

Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2008, 12:50:45 AM »
Phil,

Could you let us know where Poxono was located specifically?

A couple of us know where to find some 1930's PA Aerials that might be revealing if any remnants of the course existed by that time.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2008, 03:07:28 AM »
Mike, it sure sounds like Poxono was located awfully close to Tillie's Shawnee on the Delaware course:

http://www.tillinghast.net/cms/node/173
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Phil_the_Author

Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2008, 05:27:48 AM »
Thanks Joe... that's where I was going to direct Mike.

Anyone want to go wandering around and see what else may be discovered there?

Joe Bausch

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2008, 06:26:35 AM »
Philip, I'd be willing to do some exploring!

That web page indicates some newspaper accounts of the course were dug up.  From what paper(s)?
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Ian Larson

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2008, 08:48:50 AM »
MPCirba....

The site is on another island on the Delaware River a few miles upstream from Shawnee Country Club. Ive visited it several times by kayak when I lived there and "thought" I found something. I also know that the superintendent at Shawnee hosted a Tillinghast Association meeting and took the group to the island with shovels and soil probes.

How great would it be if the plans were still intact and someone would actually build the thing? Its a beautiful site and the drawings form the Wolfe and Trebus books indicate a great par three shot on a peninnsula and a par five double dog-leg.

Joe Bausch

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #8 on: April 02, 2008, 09:14:49 AM »
Ian, is it the next island upstream?  I think Google Maps calls that island Depue?

Here is a link to the low res photo from the Hagley Museum where I'm guessing Poxono was located.  This pic is from 1930 and if it was on Depue Island, there isn't anything easily visible of it left.

http://digital.hagley.org/u?/p268001uw,819

Here is the photo from that web page:



« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 11:43:27 AM by Joe Bausch »
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Craig Disher

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #9 on: April 02, 2008, 11:58:55 AM »
I looked into this a few years ago and didn't come up with anything conclusive from the 1930s aerials. There are two islands that could have been the sites - Depew and Poxono, both upstream from Shawnee. Depew looks washed out by floods so if the course was on that island the lack of visual evidence wouldn't be surprising.



Poxono is larger and appears less damaged but there don't appear to be any indications of a gc.



Update: If the par 3 green was near the intersection of the Binniekill and the Delaware, the site must have been the island shown in the Hagley photo or the area to the west of the Shawnee course. The Binniekill is the small arm of the Delaware that creates the island for the Shawnee gc. I think that rules out the two islands above.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 01:03:54 PM by Craig Disher »

Joe Bausch

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #10 on: April 02, 2008, 12:54:59 PM »
Craig, that AWT web page indicates the site for Poxono CC was 400 acres.  A quick guess at the acreage of Poxono island, which I think I've found on Google, is that it is maybe 100 acres or a bit more.  But Depew island is much bigger, probably easily 400 acres.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Craig Disher

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #11 on: April 02, 2008, 01:06:26 PM »
Joe,
The mod to my earlier email crossed with yours. I agree with you. Depue is the best candidate but from the 1930 aerial it looks like nothing was ever built there. The area to the west of the original Shawnee course is too small.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 01:29:28 PM by Craig Disher »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #12 on: April 02, 2008, 02:31:19 PM »
Guys,

A few things to consider. As to the exact site where Rick Wolffe and the rest discovered the remnants of the course, I will email him and see if he remembers exactly which island was involved.

I would suggest that becoming convinced that it is Depew because it is some 400 acres in size matching that aspect of Tilly's description may be incorrect for a number of reasons.

For those that can access the November 1926 issue of Golf Illustrated which contains the article on Poxono (if you can't let me know and I'll email it to you) Tilly used three illustrations. It is the ones of the different par threes that give strong hints that it was on Poxono Island that a portion of the course was built.

In figure 2 (sorry guys, I still can't figure out how to post the images) it shows a par-three that sits at the tip of the island at the intersection of the Delaware River and it's Binniekill. (For those that don't know, a Binniekill is an off-shoot of a river that leaves the main stream and returns to it and thus forming the island. Too small to be considered a river on it's own.)

The key feature of the illustration is that it contains a BRIDGE to be constructed that would take the golfer across the water to the next tee. In other words, the course was designed and built just as Shawnee was; on BOTH side of the river. This means that even though there is only 100+ acres on Poxono Island that it didn't have to contain the entire course.

The illustration also depicts the bridge to be to the right-side of the green as it sits on the tip of land used. This would make sense especially as the clubhouse would have to be reasonably close to the only road nearby and that area of the mainland, as seen in the aerial, is somewhat flat and was being farmed. It is also on the side of the river where the road runs by.

In addition, Tilly describes the tee shot as being from a bluff looking down on "nothing but a green and a causeway leading down to it..."

The Third illustration is of another par-three, this one being the 2nd hole. That too is important as is the description of where it was located. It was built, "on the banks of the DELAWARE..." In other words, with the river flowing along the length of the hole, this would mean that it would have to be on the opposite side of the island from the other illustrated par-three. There is also an inlet of the Delaware that the golfer would have to hit across to reach the green.

If one looks at the aerial of Poxono Island, in the lower left corner is an inlet of the Delaware. Due to rains and flooding that have plagued the area, it would be easy to accept that this was once a small inlet that has become enlarged over the years. It also allows for both a first hole leading to it where the tee may have been a short distance from another bridge leading back to where the clubhouse was at the main road.

Finally, it was named "Poxono" after all. It doesn't seem to be reasonable that it would have been built on Depew and named after another island.

Of course all of this marvelous reasoning may be incorrect! I'll let you know after I speak with Rick!

Ian, you were wondering if maybe the original plans still exist. It doesn't appear that they do. All of Tilly's original personal drawings and copies, along with his papers, notes and correspondences that survived his death were derstroyed in a fire in the 1950's. They had been stored away in a barn on the property where his daughter and son-in-law (the Brown's) lived in Minnesota.

That is another reason why the Tillinghast Association is expanding our website and placing as many copies of writings, documents, and in coming days ahead, blueprints and drawings of his designs. Please visit the site and enjoy what you can learn...

By the way, not a single penny to pay for this work or site has been asked from anyone, especially the membership. The Board of Directors of the Association feels very strongly that it is a privilege to be of whatever aid they can to those who want to learn about Tilly.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 02:37:40 PM by Philip Young »

Craig Disher

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #13 on: April 02, 2008, 02:59:39 PM »
Philip,
The article says "the Binniekill", not "its Binniekill". I think the difference is significant. The Binniekill was well recognized as the stream that separated the Shawnee gc from the mainland; the  par 3 16th was known as "The Binniekill." I think it would be unusual if AWT used the commonly understood name to refer to a feature several miles from Shawnee.

The size of Poxono Island is about 100 acres, Depew a little smaller.  If Depue is 400 acres and it's believed that Poxono was built on 400 acres, that sounds more than coincidental.

I'm skeptical that the course was built at all - but I'd like to be convinced otherwise. Do you know where the information  about the 400 acre size and the clubhouse design came from?

« Last Edit: April 02, 2008, 03:07:05 PM by Craig Disher »

Phil_the_Author

Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #14 on: April 02, 2008, 03:47:10 PM »
Craig,

As far as the use of the term "the Binniekill" by Tilly rather than "it's Binniekill," I think it was just his semantical use of the phrase. From what I understand, and I could be wrong, the title Binniekill describes the water feature and is not a name of a specific one.

I will ask Rick about the clubhouse and "400 acres" information. I believe this is information discovered by his brother Stu and I'll ask him as well.

This looks like the beginnings of another fun research project...

Lou_Duran

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2008, 04:13:16 PM »
Did Tillie draw to scale?  The river looks much wider at the point of the island than the diagram indicates.  The formation of islands suggests that the river and surrounding area is flood prone.   That must have been one hell of a bridge.

Can one imagine an architect today taking a set of plans on such a site to the EPA or the Corp of Engineers?  They'd be laughed right out of the building.  Perhaps we should be more understanding if not kinder to modern architects for not always providing quaint, easily walkable routings on really cool sites.   

 

Joe Bausch

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2008, 04:17:34 PM »
MikeC has asked me to post the following message he received from a "Jim".  I  should probably know who this is, but I don't!  Anyway, he has some Poxono info to provide.  I can't link to his photo currently, however.

As to some of the questions on the thread re: Poxono:

   1. Only six holes were built on Poxono Island —12 were built on the NJ side (close to Colmo School ).
   2. The clubhouse was not built—the course was built but it is inconclusive as to whether there was actually any play.  In doing research, I ran across anecdotal stuff such as farmers who were quoted saying, “some New Yorker came here and ruined perfectly good cornfields.”
   3. A couple of oddities:
         1. Tillie planned on building an airfield for his members
         2. Tillie had an advisory group with included Grantland Rice and Bobby Jones
         3. Tillie’s first Superintendent at Shawnee was Robert White.  Robert White, in building the courses he designed, used Fred Arbogast (out of Stroudsburg, PA) to build his courses.  Even though there was a connection (i.e. White) between Tillie and Arbogast, Tillie choose a construction firm out of Long Island .

I’ve attached a photo of the excursion from a couple of years ago…this is where the par 3 referred to in Phil Young’s response (i.e. the Golf Illustrated article—It is also in George Thomas’ book and is in The Course Beautiful).

If you have any other questions I could field, please let me know.
@jwbausch (for new photo albums)
The site for the Cobb's Creek project:  https://cobbscreek.org/
Nearly all Delaware Valley golf courses in photo albums: Bausch Collection

Craig Disher

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #17 on: April 02, 2008, 04:58:31 PM »
I looked again at the 1939 aerial around Poxono Is. and although I may be over-interpreting what I see, it looks like there are two areas which might have been green sites. There is one spot on the island near the top which looks like it has 4-5 bunkers surrounding what would have been the green. Looking at the birds eye view of the island on windows live local, the bunker depressions are still there.  However, it could be just a random wash-out that looks like bunkers. The other area is on the NJ side at the northern end of the open area. 

The open space in 1939 looks about right for an 18-hole gc and the info from "Jim" sounds very plausible.

Joe - is Jim's photo contemporary or from the 1920s? It might be the 2000 photo from the AWT website.

Craig Disher

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Re: Poxono Golf Club...Tillinghasts lost links
« Reply #18 on: April 02, 2008, 05:08:49 PM »
I don't know if this is dispositive or misleading...


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