[THuckaby2]

Good man, shivas.  You stick with Rye, I'll be more of a man and stick with Sand Hills.  And re 17 Cypress, oh yeah, I too managed the short right angle last time and it is VERY risky off the tee but VERY cool to pull off... Just having that exist at all saves the hole for me.  I love it.

Shooter:  you really think the walk from 2 to 3 at Dornoch exceeds 15 to 16 at Cypress?  Oh man, that is a nice walk indeed, but you don't have close to the "anticipation" factor you do here in California... 3 Dornoch is a decent hole, but I'm not walking to it waiting for the picture I've seen thousands of times "unfold" before me like at Cypress....

That is very interesting though.  I'm sure Rich will agree with ya!  But me having said that, now he likely won't.  

These are all so vague, un-quantifiable, "touch-feely" concepts anyway, there is obviously no right or wrong.  But if you care to, please describe what I obviously missed in that walk from 2 to 3 my several times around Dornoch.  I am interested and I can be taught!

TH

[David Wigler]

Shooter,

I am with Tom.  Remove the anticipation, and the coolest walk I have ever had was the one thru the mineshaft at Pete Dye Golf Club.  That written, I cannot remember from which hole to which hole that walk consisted off.  Walking off #15, I knew what came next.  It was the hole I had stared at in a poster in my office for over ten years.  Walking down the first fairway at Cypress, Don said to me that we had made it.  I responded that it was not official until we hit our tee shots on #16 (Kind of like a baseball game needing 5 innings).  The tree lining was perfect.  You are ready to see the hole and instead, Dr. Mackenzie takes you on a tour.  It was like Alice going thru the looking glass.  When you come out thru the trees, golf's chapel is in front of you.  Nothing can compare.

[THuckaby2]

Perfect, Dave.  Love the baseball analogy also.

TH

[Don_Mahaffey]

Shivas,
What did you think of the 5th? I know for most long hitters it's a green light, but...not an easy green to hit or putt with the steeply sloped front. Also, the second plays quite a bit up hill. Those bunkers don't look like they're in play, but two of my partners where in them. David hit it in the fwy bunker on the left, hit a good lay up, then hit his approach pin high only to watch it spin 10 yards off the front of the green. I liked all the holes you mentioned, but I really dug the bunkering and use of the topography on the 5th. Another unsung hole is the 4th, dual fairway bunkers to a well protected, wickedly sloped green. As my caddie said, its a good thing my birdie putt hit the back of the cup or it would have been off the front of the green  
            

[RFG]

Tom

At CPC 15 to 16 you have a long secluded walk surrounded by tall cypresses and then a beautiful vista of a great golf hole and the rugged Pacific shore.  You are near the end of what has hopefully been a memorable golfing experience.

At Dornoch 2 to 3 you have a short secluded walk, surrounded by bright yellow gorse (if you are lucky in your timing) and then a beautiful vista of 10-11 great golf holes, full of golfers, and the beaches of the North sea and a sea of yellow gorse lining the fairways, and the bens of Sutherland wavering in the distance.  You are just starting what will hopefully be a memorable golfing experience.

They are both great walks.  It's up to personal perference which is "better", just like golf course rankings......

PS--the Dornoch walk was even better 15-20 years ago before they lowered the 3rd tee........

[ed_getka]

David,
 I can relate to your par at #16 and how bad you wanted to make the putt. I haven't parred that hole (YET!). I parred #8 at Pebble the only time I played there by getting up and down out of the short left bunker. My brother took a picture of my blasting out of the sand there and it is the only golfing picture of me I have framed (I wanted that par SO much).

Shivas,
  I think a strong player on their game can certainly go low at Cypress and an argument could me made that a few of holes at Cypress are in danger of being outdated. That doesn't change the greatness of the course in my mind and the first tee is the only place where the world was going white as I was about one breath from passing out before I striped one down the middle. Cypress is as close as one can come to a religious experience on a golf course. I'm glad you enjoyed the round, how did you do at Pasa?

[Lou Duran]

Thanks for the kind words, Bob and Tom.  Whatever success I enjoyed at CP was largely due to being led around by a great caddy, Barry.  It is also very hard not to be inspired at CP.

Had I had Barry on my bag at Sand Hills, the match against Master Huckaby might have been closer.  Boy talking about an a-- whipping!  And not once but twice!   Warning to all GCArs- playing the Huckster can be dangerous to your health.  This mild mannered, great friend to everyone is in reality a cold-blooded killer on the course.  Oh he is gracious and witty after the match at the 19th hole, all the while tallying his winnings in his head.  I bet that he even practices the loop at the top of his swing to further frustrate his over-confident opponents when they are digging into their pockets to pay-off.  Cruel bas----, that's what he is!

Will somebody please explain to me why you don't get a drop on the left of CP # 16 short of the hole when the ball crosses land and goes into the drink?  Is it a local rule?  It could have saved me a couple of strokes.

#17 would be a better hole if they could recapture some of the land right of the trees that has eroded into the ocean.  As it is right now, there is not much of a heroic choice.  My second to within a foot of the pin was a blind shot.  I liked it a lot given the results, but I can understand why some don't care for 17 or 18, for that matter.  

[Patrick_Mucci]

David Wigler,

I'm partial to #'s 4, 6, 8, 15 and 18 at NGLA.

I could play them everyday for the rest of my life and never be bored, yet be challenged by everything about them.

Isn't that the ultimate test ?

[Pete Lavallee]

Lou,

That's great golfing, 4 under after 14 at Cypress Point, on he first try no less. How did you concentrate on golf, with all that beauty around you?

I found 16 to be the best heroic shot in golf, bar none. No single golf shot has more riding on its' outcome. The prize is to conquer nature itself, with seeming little addition of the hand of man. The comensurate thrill of breaching that chasm can only be understood by those who have done it. Of course that must be validated by an up and down or two putt. Thank goodness the Doctor gave us the largest, and least contoured green to accomplish it on.

What really struck me about the hole is how well it functions on two disticnt levels; as the greatest one shot hole from one angle, and a fabulous short par 4 from another. The green is surrounded by 6 bunkers which bracket the target beautifully for those wishing to tackle the long carry. However, from the layup area these same 6 bunkers do a fantastic job of protecting the putting surface. How many greens work this well from two distinct points of the compass? Maybe the answer to Rich's problem with 18 is to play 16 with two balls, like Mike Clayton, as a par 4 and a par 3 and use the 18th to settle bets!

My overall impression is that Dr. MacKenzie does not get enough credit for making Cypress Point what it is. Although universally acclaimed as a great site, and revered as one of the top 3 golf courses world wide, what lessons in design have become commonplace from here? Where else do you let the site dictate the design and find back to back par 5's and par 3's, three consecutive dogleg right par 4's (each playing uniquely different), and most importantly, bunkers placed in the field of play that must either be boldly crossed to attack the hole, or carefully avoided, if one's game is not up to the challange. This alone could be why the course works so well, to this day, for a match between the long and short hitter from the same tiny teeing ground. In "The Spririt of St. Andrews", MacKenzie states that Marion Hollins demonstrated the shot to the 16th green site to Seth Raynor, not the Doctor. I wonder, would the hole be as "perfect" if he designed it?  

[Roger]

Unfortunately, my tour of the planet Earth has not taken in all of its courses. From my experience, it would be the 13th in Druid's Glenn or the 17th in Rosses Point.

[TEPaul]

RFG:

In my opinion, a better way to deal with the constant rap on the weakeness of the 18th hole at CP would be one of two things instead of rerouting and redesigning the course.

1. Take another look at the 18th as it is today and consider this remark by Robert Hunter:

"The last hole takes us along a very narrow route back to the clubhouse. This hole will require better play than the others and while it is short, it's amazingly difficult and is, perhaps, in its contours and landscape, the most beautiful in the world."

If that doesn't work for you maybe recommend a club assessment to create a fund to both build the bridge from the rock tee originally intended for #18 by MacKenzie adding about 50yds to the hole with enough money in the fund to keep rebuilding that bridge to that back tee every time the wind and waves wipe it out!

[David Wigler]

Tom,

That Mackenzie tee on 18 was pointed out to me during the round.  IMO, if they built that tee and then shaved the fairway down a little bit, it would be one of the most dramatic finishing holes in all of golf.  I wonder if the California environmentalists would let them built a tee box literally in the bay today.  My gut is that the chance was missed and today they would find that the Monterrey Red Bellied Oyster uses those rocks as its only breeding ground and no construction can take place.

[THuckaby2]

Lou Duran:

Your assessment of me was classic and I loved it!  Oh yes, I ought to have warned you also - I am the Medusa of Golf - best not to look at my swing lest your own be turned to stone!

Now re Cypress here... these are all wonderful thoughts.  I too saw the "island" for the tee on 18 and David's right - it would make for one hell of a dramatic tee shot.  But the bridge plans as set forth in Geoff Shackelford's book are well... just asking for a bridge that's ruined in the next El Nino storm year.  Could something be built that withstands the inevitable violent ocean bashing?

TH

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