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Joey Smith

  • Karma: +0/-0
Routing vs. EPA
« on: March 24, 2008, 11:32:17 PM »
Why are routings so weak, especially over the last 20 years?  Is it because of environmental protections?  Wetlands?  Development?  Space limitations? 
I've only seen one that really stinks...but I seen a lot of really good ones...

John Nixon

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing vs. EPA
« Reply #1 on: March 26, 2008, 08:30:50 AM »
Are they weak?

Granting that they may be (though I would doubt it), perhaps the problem is poor routing skills as much as external factors.   ;)

And to pick a few nits, it ain't solely EPA that's imposing those external factors - local zoning, state laws and regs, flood control, etc are part of the package. Not every evil comes from big bad D.C.

Jim Nugent

Re: Routing vs. EPA
« Reply #2 on: March 26, 2008, 09:12:58 AM »
Why are routings so weak, especially over the last 20 years?  Is it because of environmental protections?  Wetlands?  Development?  Space limitations? 

Could you give us some examples of poor routing? 

Tom_Doak

  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Routing vs. EPA
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2008, 10:03:33 AM »
I'm not sure in what way you think most modern routings are weak, but I think they're weak because clients don't demand otherwise.

In the old days architects worked for groups of golfers who were going to walk the course, and wouldn't put up with long hikes to get to the next elevated tee.  Today, the clients are developers who don't particularly care about walkability, and whose "other amenities" sometimes trump the best location for golf holes.  Honestly, in my first ten years of practice, I had more clients express interest in spreading out the holes (to increase cart revenue), than in getting greens and tees close together.  It hasn't happened lately, but I think that's because I'm talking to a client pool who knows me better, not because the business has really changed.

Jimmy Chandler

  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Routing vs. EPA
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2008, 10:49:52 AM »
I think they're weak because clients don't demand otherwise.... Today, the clients are developers who don't particularly care about walkability, and whose "other amenities" sometimes trump the best location for golf holes. 

Tom --

Do you (or any other architects reading this) see a difference in muni clients from developer clients in routing requirements? I would doubt that government bureaucrats are much more interested in walkability or understand the ins-and-outs of routing, but at least they don't have a real-estate driven agenda?

J. David Hart

Re: Routing vs. EPA
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2008, 11:01:28 AM »
From my experience routing simply has more to do with getting the golfer to rent carts,and drive near the clubhouse as often as possible,so they will
buy more. Of course the EPA does not want us to make long term envionmental messes. The real golf course that "purists" want to play are
few and far between, most new courses are routed to produce revenue.
Which is what we all want, but some to lesser and more enjoyable degrees. ;D

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